Best CRT colour TV?

[FERNSEH]

Look out for a Philips D16, a hi spec receiver which was available with 25 and 28" 4:3 CRTs. Manufactured about 1989-90. Philips spared no expense developing this chassis. The ITT Digivision chipset is employed in the video processing.
Sets were marketed as Matchline.

DFWB.

[Peter.N.]

I remember those - they were very complicated.

Peter

[Maarten]

Some Beko sets (100Hz I think) had a tendency to burn up. Both the deflection connector at the chassis side, as (especially on Samsung tubes) the correction circuit at the deflection coil side. They were a bit more reliable than Vestel, but in my limited experience still pretty much hit and miss.

[Maarten]

Originally Posted by FERNSEH

Look out for a Philips D16, a hi spec receiver which was available with 25 and 28" 4:3 CRTs. Manufactured about 1989-90. Philips spared no expense developing this chassis. The ITT Digivision chipset is employed in the video processing.
Sets were marketed as Matchline.

The FL and later GFL digital chassis used in later Matchline models were in my opinion much better, but I must admit I spent more time watching the picture on FL sets than D16 or GFL.

[Clydeuk]

When I had my shop in the 1990's we sold a fair number of the Salora M chassis. They usually fetched a good price - the picture I thought was good and our customers liked them. Once all the dry joints had been sorted they seemed fine - I don't remember anyone bringing one back for repair.

The L chassis used to suffer badly with poor solder on the teletext board, the plated through holes seemed to be the issue, and it was a real headache resoldering them well as the solder used to bubble and form a dry joint. I knew of one shop that used to buy these from a warehouse and remove the board completely as it made them more reliable.

[slidertogrid]

There was one of those Philips Matchline sets fly tipped in a layby opposite my mates garage a couple of weeks ago. It was in excellent condition complete with stand. Unfortunately it was pouring down with rain so that made the decision to leave it where it was easy!
The next time I saw it someone had smashed it up, presumably for the copper in the scancoils as there was just a big hole where they had once been. I bet that tube went with a pop!
I regretted not saving it but for me the problem with a set like this is the space it takes up!
The last big screen Philips I worked on was the FL1 early widescreen sets in the late 90's.
I remember you had to be careful running the set with pcb pulled back as there was a little metal slot bracket on the bottom of the cabinet which supported the LOPT when the panel was in situ, it was easy to short the panel to this with subsequent bang and loss of print...
Only did that once...!
Rich.

[Welsh Anorak]

Hi
I thought the best Philips TV for picture quality was the 29" 4:3 set with its scary high gloss wooden cabinet. It didn't have any of the digital processing tricks (well, not many) and with a new CRT could knock spots off most others - including the 28" version of the same chassis. The problem was the infamous ESF CRT which gave a stunning picture but failed prematurely like in the widescreen versions. But get a good one...
Glyn

[ben]

Originally Posted by Maarten

Some Beko sets (100Hz I think) had a tendency to burn up. Both the deflection connector at the chassis side, as (especially on Samsung tubes) the correction circuit at the deflection coil side. They were a bit more reliable than Vestel, but in my limited experience still pretty much hit and miss.

Maarten,

My in-laws' 25" sony (KV-25C1, BE3D, circa 1996) bit the dust - bad tube, AKB meant ages to start up, the bodge of reducing the value of that resistor on the CRT neck PCB only gave it a few months' grace. I replaced it with a BEKO 21T44txm (12.7 chassis) which I'd been given as a non-worker, then fitted with a new HR8484 LOPT and I think a cap in the frame cct. That was about a decade ago and the set is still soldiering on! A bit ironic, Beko:1, Sony:0 in this case!

In response to your earlier question, unfortunately I didn't note the origin of the bad Sony tubes.

[Maarten]

Originally Posted by Clydeuk

When I had my shop in the 1990's we sold a fair number of the Salora M chassis. They usually fetched a good price - the picture I thought was good and our customers liked them. Once all the dry joints had been sorted they seemed fine - I don't remember anyone bringing one back for repair.

Not a single duff electrolytic or blown switching transistor?

[ntscuser]

Originally Posted by Welsh Anorak

I thought the best Philips TV for picture quality was the 29" 4:3 set with its scary high gloss wooden cabinet. It didn't have any of the digital processing tricks (well, not many) and with a new CRT could knock spots off most others - including the 28" version of the same chassis.

I used to think that too but the performance was achieved (I think) by a combination of a Blackline tube and Scan Velocity Management? The latter was very impressive under showroom conditions but palled under close scrutiny. It actually reduced horizontal resolution and was best turned off under normal use.

The Philips range at that time reminds of of German tank production in WW2. They made everything from super sets to budget models with no apparent attempt at standardisation or rationalisation. Little wonder then it eventually went belly up (although still thriving in other areas).

[Heatercathodeshort]

There were very many excellent receivers produced giving absolutely fantastic pictures. To be honest, I don't know how they did it.
The Toshiba 'C3' coated tubes used in the early Dolby receivers were outstanding together with the JVC AV25F1EK models from 1989. Incredible colour with no patterns, fringing and sparkling definition. The CRT's must have been hand picked for this model. Quite frankly they put the Sony into the shade. The large Sony's always looked good on demonstration but when in the home lacked 'something' that was difficult to explain.
The Luxor/Scantic B2 chassis was also excellent and well loved by customers. I sold a large number and never a complaint. The Philips K30/35/40 took a lot of beating. Happy Days! John.

[slidertogrid]

The Philips K30/35/40 took a lot of beating.

Seconded! I had forgot how good this series of sets were, we had loads out on rental with very few problems. The K40 dry joint could produce a bit of smoke and damage but we caught most of ours before they burnt up.
We had a 26" standard K35 in an OAP home that was on day and night. In ten years I can only remember one fault which was the tuner switches.
It had a secondhand tube fitted when it was around 12 years old as the home wanted to keep it as it was easy for the residents to use.
As you say John, happy days!

Rich.

[Mooly]

Its interesting seeing all the different opinions here... a lot of rose coloured spectacles seem to be being worn

My recollections of Philips (as both a field tech and bench tech) was that tube life was generally poor. Power supplies seemed to be designed on the 'throw a bag of bits in the air and see how they land' principle, together with a large stake in the manufacturers of zeners and small signal diodes. Bekos, BPL, Akuras et all were a mixed bag. Early Toshibas had stellar reliability, some of the later large screen models less so. Picture quality imo couldn't compare to Sony over the lifetime of the product. Some large screen Sanyos and Fergies... truly awful picture quality even when new.

Walk into any large showroom in the late 80's and through the 90s and one set stood out. Sony. They were also consistent in image quality when you saw a large collection together.

[Maarten]

Depends on the definition of consistent and the colour of the spectacles being worn

You are right that some Philips series had poor tube life, or maybe it was the tubes themselves. First generation 45AX seemed not too good, and depending on the chassis some 30AX tubes went duff as well (it seemed to me the K30 was worse than the K40 chassis, but no hard dat). I think the 2A and CP110 chassis with 45AX tubes didn't have a fantastic tube life (though not that bad compared to Telefunken and SEL tubes at the time - SEL also did contract manufacturing for Sony by the way), while the G110 chassis had a very good tube life.

[Maarten]

Originally Posted by ntscuser

I used to think that too but the performance was achieved (I think) by a combination of a Blackline tube and Scan Velocity Management? The latter was very impressive under showroom conditions but palled under close scrutiny. It actually reduced horizontal resolution and was best turned off under normal use.

The Philips range at that time reminds of of German tank production in WW2. They made everything from super sets to budget models with no apparent attempt at standardisation or rationalisation. Little wonder then it eventually went belly up (although still thriving in other areas).

The lack of standardisation and rationalisation was also caused by factories internally competing with eachother, though the later Matchline sets were mostly Dutch/Belgian. Mid range sets were mostly made in Belgium and France. The bulk production of smaller sets later shifted from Italy and Spain to France and Poland (while the designs from Spain and Italy were generally well thought through and very reliable, the French designs tended to suck a bit). Small sets were also regularly imported from Singapore. Singapore had their own design staff and started out by modifying Dutch designs mostly. They had a full range of screen sizes and chassis, mostly for the rest of the world market, that were sometimes seen in sets for Europe as well. Up to the mid 1980's, Sweden had their own line of luxury TV sets. Up to the early 1980's, there was production and design in Germany and the UK. Up to the late 1970's also in Austria. By the way, I would hardly describe Philips as still thriving in other areas. Maybe in 1.5 area (2.5 before they split off lighting, their very first division), which in the long run might prove to be too little to survive.

The good performance of the 29" tube compared to the 28" tube was, amongst other things such as clever ways to correct geometry actively and passively, because of the electron gun with smaller cathodes en specially shaped grids. Unfortunately that was also its weakness; the gun tended to short out internally, especially when run hard.

[Clydeuk]

Originally Posted by Maarten

Not a single duff electrolytic or blown switching transistor?

To be honest you're probably right, though it's all a bit vague now. I don't remember ever replacing a LOPT or Horizontal output transistor. Maybe I just got lucky. I always remember thinking the M chassis looked over complex and fearing for reliablilty, but we never had one come back to us after sale. I did soak test all our refurbished sets though, maybe that helped.

[slidertogrid]

I think some kt3/ k30 series underran the tube heaters slightly, maybe that shortened tube life?
Some sets certainly went a bit "tubey" early on.
I found the pil and 30ax tubes didn't last if boosted. I found the best way to prolong their life was to slightly shorten one of the small heater chokes on the CRT base panel. This would brighten the heaters slightly and make them a little more cherry red. The effect on the picture was mostly a vast improvement and the tube would last years like that.
I only carried out this "modge" to our own sets or with owners permission and understanding that it was a last ditch try.
Apart from the 4r7 in the PSU, random dry joints, The tripler (KT3) and the odd lopt when they were getting old I can't think of many common faults on the KT3/ K30/35.
There were certainly worse sets about at the time..
Rich.

[Clydeuk]

I think it was the KT3 with the A51-570X 20 inch CRT. The ones I saw were always flat, and because these had come from a disposal warehouse I used to find the 2 chokes shorted out already with the heaters looking brighter than they should. I think this tube in general was poor as I had a Decca (70 chassis?) that used it and that was also flat as a pancake. I think in 5 years I only encountered 2 good CRT's of this type, and one of these was a regun.

[Heatercathodeshort]

The early 30AX tubes had a very short life,sometimes as short as 12 months. Once Mullard sorted out the manufacturing fault the 30AX tube were one of the best CRT's ever produced.
The fat neck gun assembly similar to high quality professional monitors produced pin sharp pictures aided by the 7kv focus supply. As with all gains there was a loss of course. The fat neck required an increase in deflection power adding to the overall power consumption.
I'm curious as to which Ferguson model produced bad pictures? The TX10 and TX100 were excellent and well respected by the technical guys.
The 14" KT3 was unbelievably reliable giving stunning pictures as did the CTX. The 16" and 20" models suffered from a truly disgusting tube that sank to zero after a few years. I must say that Philips went through a poor period of CRT unreliability that they never recovered from.
The 45AX series never focused correctly from new and appeared to have a poor red phosphor giving 'orange' reds. For some reason the 45 AX CRTs in Panasonic and JVC receivers were free from this problem. I can't recall a single model that produced poor quality pictures in the 70's/80's or 90's but of course there may have been a few that were a bit below the high standard but as I have stated before, customers never noticed and were more than happy with the results.
Sony 27" and 29" tubes were very poor lasting little over a year. I was called out to look at many, there owners had been quoted over £400 to replace the tube in a receiver that had cost them a great deal of money to purchase. Most went low emission or one heater failed. Sony would not uphold a free replacement when just out of guarantee, unlike Toshiba. A friendly phone call to the service dept would produce a FOC tube within a few days. Premature failure was a rare occurrence but it was nice to know that your valued customer would not be presented with a shocking bill. I had great respect for all the manufacturers producing reliable products at minimal cost. They served us well. Regards, John.

[Libratron]

Sony KX-20PS1 is the best for me.

Libra