Battery portable - Make and Model ?

[JulietMike]

Help please ! I have been trying to identify a valve portable radio that I remember from the 1950s. I think it was made in the decade before but have not been able to find the exact make and model. It was an "All Dry" set and used a B141 battery. The Murphy B81 and Pye Baby Q look similar. Thanks in advance.

John

[Mike. Watterson]

We'd need more information.
AFIAK only Ever Ready used the B141. Some other makers did use the B114.

The B81 doesn't look like any All dry model I know that uses a B114. It's 2V lead acid.
There are about SEVEN Pye baby Q from 1937 to 1949.


This uses a B141
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/ever_sky_princess.html
this is really the same model: https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/berec_calypso.html
this is also the same chassis and uses a B141 https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/berec_harlequin.html

This MIGHT use a B141. I have it in the attic. I'd have to check
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/ever_sky_baby.html

This DOES use a B141
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/ever_sky_baronet.html
Same model https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/berec_matador.html

The Baronet / Matador are updated versions of the Princess.


I don't know any other models using the B141.

"All Dry" is an Ever Ready / BEREC description.

I think the EMI owned HMV and Marconi models that used a B114 only did so because it's really the same design of chassis as the Ever Ready Model "B".

[Mike. Watterson]

Note: The B114 pack maybe released 1946 / 1947. It was for 50mA 1.4V valves.
The B141 pack can't have been used before 1953 as it's the equivalent kind of pack for 25mA filament valves.

1940s All Dry models (arrived in 1939 in UK) is a decade before 1950s. None would have used the B141. It didn't exist. The USA all dry personal sets all used separate D cells and HT only packs.
The earliest USA "All Dry" sets used Sylvania valves, 1938. 1940 saw the miniature RCA types, B7G base, but same filament currents.
All the UK 1939 to 1945 sets used pretty big batteries. The Ever Ready model specifically sold as "All Dry" from 1939 to 1945 used the big AD3 battery pack.

Small UK combo packs with 1.5V LT
B114: https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/ever_b114.html 67 or 69V
B141: https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/ever_b141.html longer and 90V
Both use a small four pin plug. Earlier models would have different labels.
Other battery makers sold compatible packs.

All the larger 1.5V LT combo packs use the old B4 valve base plug and socket, about twice the size and offset HT pin for 90V.

There are some large combo packs used in UK at 7.5V LT and 9V LT that also were used in USA. All mains/battery type sets.

Note 1.5V, 7.5V and 9V are nominal "reasonably fresh" voltages. Not the real voltages the valves rated at.

[JulietMike]

Mike,

Many thanks for your quick reply.

Unfortunately I do not have a photograph but it was about the same size and similar in styling to the B81, with a wood cabinet covered in black rexine - 3 controls and dial on top. However, I had don't think it was a B81, because of the 2V accumulator.

John

[Mike. Watterson]

Early Roberts with Octal All Dry https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/roberts_p4dp_4.html
Later miniature tubes https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/roberts_rmb.html

They don't take B141, but do look like some Pye models.
Very many Vidor sets from 1938 to 1950. All take separate HT & LT. All Dry from 1940s
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/vidor_..._superhet.html

1938: Uses Lead Acid 2V https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/vidor_288.html
1945: All Dry (I don't know of earlier from Vidor) https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/vidor_...n351cn_35.html
I've five or six of that style Vidor, inc the 288.
I've one of the Roberts models.
I've got a couple of versions of Pye Baby Q, Lead Acid 2V and All Dry, Pre war and post war.

[Mike. Watterson]

Originally Posted by JulietMike

with a wood cabinet covered in black rexine - 3 controls and dial on top. However, I had don't think it was a B81, because of the 2V accumulator.

I suspect the B141 was some other model. Very many models had 3 controls, black or very dark rexine, scale on top. I don't think any would have used a B141 as a B141 was for after 1952 and I think only the Ever Ready/ BEREC models listed.
However the Princess etc can be used vertically, then you'd have 3 knobs and scale on the top.

What did speaker grill look like?
Did it have a turntable (common on older 1937 to 1949 models).

[JulietMike]

Mike,

Thank you for your help. I think I made a mistake with the battery type because he larger AD3 does look correct. I have looked at the Roberts and Vidor sets but none seem to be the set that I remember.

John

[JulietMike]

I think the speaker grill was just a round aperture and I'm not sure if it had a turntable. I recall the frame aerial was wound around the inside of the cabinet.

[Mike. Watterson]

An actual Ever Ready "All Dry" with Lissen branding and AD3 pack
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/lissen...able_8515.html

Or Ever Ready Branded. Came in three variations of Black, only red version common.
"Red/black leatherette finish. See also the 5215 model (gold/black leatherette) and the 5216 model (blue/black leatherette)."
Some of these may have had black as the main colour.
https://www.radiomuseum.org/images/r...rly_712264.jpg
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/ever_a..._portable.html

Made from 1939 to 1944 or 1945, when replaced by the Model A, which is nearly identical to the late model 5215

So meets criteria of:
A decade earlier than 1950s.
A combo battery pack.
Actually called "The All Dry Portable".
Scale and three knobs on top.

Early models had octagonal speaker cut out, later a square/rectangle.
Some variations had a half semicircle scale / dial.
Some models in the series had straight sides and others had wider base.

Early ones moved pointer the opposite way to knob, later models rotated the same direction. I can't think of other makes that had that early tuning quirk.

Battery does look vaguely like an B141
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/ever_a...ttery_ad3.html
It's VERY much bigger! Though not as big as some USA farm set packs or as the B137, possibly Ever Ready's largest pack.
I've replicated most battery packs.
My 1939 Lissen works quite well on the replica AD3 pack with 4 x D cells in parallel and 60 off AA cells in series.

[Mike. Watterson]

Originally Posted by JulietMike

I think the speaker grill was just a round aperture and I'm not sure if it had a turntable. I recall the frame aerial was wound around the inside of the cabinet.

Frame aerial like that on them all till 1950s. Some had the aerial in the lid if it was large enough.

Round speaker cutout is not so common. Not any Bush or Murphy because though they have round, not All Dry in 1940s. At least not in Radio Museum.

[Mike. Watterson]

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/pye_l75b_l_75_b.html
More oval ended rectangle.
Almost ticks all the other boxes, but NOT a combo battery.

[JulietMike]

Thanks Mike,

It might have been a Lissen/Ever Ready and perhaps the speaker cut-out was actually hexagonal and not round as I remember. Wish I had a photo but they were quite rare in those days !

John

[Mike. Watterson]

Actually the early Lissen / Ever Ready used Octagonal, which is "rounder" than hexagonal.

Maybe you'll remember something else. The Lissen was also in other colours than Black with Green.

Ever Ready advert https://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/ev...tteries.html#4

Translated from German:

In 1940, Lord Nuffield donated more than 1,500 of these £ 15,000 worth of equipment to the British forces in France (British Expeditionary Forces) to help them connect with their homeland.
An equivalent to our troop caregivers, not a military device.

BBC sent its own "Forces Program" on several frequencies of the medium wave:
From 7.January 1940 in the evening after 18h to 342.1 m (used by the Home Service during the day);
From 18 February then from 11h - 23h, daytime to 373.1 m and in the evening to 342.1 m;
From 17 March to the Oversea's service to 261.1 m, whose program was also transferred after 22h to 373.1 m.

Source: Jonathan Hill, RadioRadio

Device Technology:
A normal superhet, powered by a large combination battery of long life. Built-in loop antenna.
Unusually the tubes: 1.4 V D types with 8 pol. Pot base: DK1 DF1 DAC1 DL2. However, these could soon no longer be delivered, so the devices were then equipped with an octal socket for the (original) equivalence types 1A7 1N5 1H5 1C5 from the USA. Interestingly, the pin assignment of both tube series is in exactly the same order, as if you had just missed the USA types another socket ...

Therefore, there are different assembly (and thus base) variants.
There is one more difference: on early devices, the scale pointer turns counterclockwise to the tuning knob.
On later units, the scale drive was changed, so that when the knob turns clockwise, the pointer also turns to the right and vice versa. Whether this change was technical, economical, ergonomic or aesthetic was unknown.

The exact type assignment is not yet fully understood.
As far as previously known, these were only different housing surfaces:
5214 red / black
5215 gold / black
5216 blue / black
from the flyer blue variant is no exact name known.
One assumes for the time being from a variant to 5214
5217 and 5218 were desktop units with a larger housing and speakers.

The 1953 Sky Queen has a large combo pack, it's an "All dry Portable", three knobs on top, wood & vinyl, frame aerial and circular grill:
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/ever_sky_queen.html

[JulietMike]

Not sure about the shape of the Ever Ready case although the Octagonal grill could be correct. The handle on the Sky Queen is not as I remember and before 1953. It was more like that on the All Dry and the case was definitely all black. Quite sure it had octal valves.

[Mike. Watterson]

The edge type look similar and the bases changed during production between 1939 & 1945.
There are different shapes of case on the All Dry series. Lissen was just an Ever Ready Brand then. Early versions had B8 edge connect base (recessed sockets) and later had International Octal (flush sockets). The connections and the actual valves are the same, so no change to design.

All black rather than two tone might be the Lissen branded All Dry.

[JulietMike]

The Ever Ready Lissen does seem to be the closest to the set that I remember. I also have a vague recollection of the tuning pointer moving in the opposite direction to the knob. Many thanks for your interest and time Mike.

John