HMV 101 portable gramophone

[DonaldStott]

Recently acquired this HMV 101 with Soundbox No.4 in very good condition.

Plays well but some grinding so I've stopped immediately.

I understand how the speed adjuster works but not sure if all the components of the brake are there or how this should be connected - see photograph below.

Removed the top board and motor box and found an intact lubrication guide underneath - hopefully this is indicative of it not being tampered with??

Soundbox is a bit stiff - it rotates anti-clockwise as expected but won't pull off . Applied some WD40 very sparingly with a cotton bud and will leave overnight. What's the thinking on replacing the rubber gasket and mica diaphragm as they are both now 90+ years old?

Looking forward to opening the motor box and I promise not to open the spring case! I will send that off to be cleaned and re-greased by someone who knows what they are doing!

Further down the line the case, handle, hinges, catches and corner brackets will need refurbished.

Any advice, guidance or tips are welcomed.

[Audio1950]

All the brake components seem to be there. The lever attached to the base of the arm has a pin on the underside. That should sit between the two forks of the brake (Pic 3), so that when the arm is moved to the right, it releases the brake.

Rotate the soundbox fully anti-clockwise as far as it will go, then push from the back of the rubber bush. Don't use excessive force, as the soundbox may be made of fragile pot-metal, as is usual on this late version of the 101. It will almost certainly benefit from a new diaphragm and rubber gasket, but if you choose to do this yourself, be very careful taking the soundbox apart, because again, excessive force will result in the soundbox breaking. The rubber bush in the back will by now be hard, and ideally, should be replaced, but these are sometimes very difficult to remove without breaking the very thin surrounding pot-metal, and in my opinion, are best left alone. I'm afraid that the presence of the lubrication chart is not indicative of the machine never having been tampered with!

[DonaldStott]

All the brake components seem to be there. The lever attached to the base of the arm has a pin on the underside. That should sit between the two forks of the brake (Pic 3), so that when the arm is moved to the right, it releases the brake.

Thanks for this - I can see the pin on the lever attached to the base of the arm but had assumed that there was a connector or something missing to retain the pin between the two forks.

How does the brake actually work or will that be obvious when I open the motor box.

Rotate the soundbox fully anti-clockwise as far as it will go, then push from the back of the rubber bush. Don't use excessive force, as the soundbox may be made of fragile pot-metal, as is usual on this late version of the 101. It will almost certainly benefit from a new diaphragm and rubber gasket, but if you choose to do this yourself, be very careful taking the soundbox apart, because again, excessive force will result in the soundbox breaking. The rubber bush in the back will by now be hard, and ideally, should be replaced, but these are sometimes very difficult to remove without breaking the very thin surrounding pot-metal, and in my opinion, are best left alone. I'm afraid that the presence of the lubrication chart is not indicative of the machine never having been tampered with!

Noted - can you advise/recommend where (who) I can go to for replacement of the diaphragm, rubber gasket and rubber bush? I also need to find someone to clean and re-grease the main spring.

Really appreciate these valuable insights.

[DonaldStott]

Looking closely at the lubrication diagram I note there are three products mentioned: -

H.M.V. Spring Lubricant
H.M.V. Gear Grease
H.M.V. Oil

I have sewing machine oil which I understand would be o.k. for the last item but what about the other two?

Would a general purpose lithium based grease be suitable?

[Audio1950]

The brake has no connection to the motor. It works by the arm moving the little lever at the end of the brake (nearest the centre spindle) towards the centre of the turntable, where it is knocked back by the cog on the underside of the turntable with every revolution. But when the soundbox reaches the fast run in groove at the end of the record, the brake lever is moving too fast to be knocked back, so it engages with the turntable cog, which stops the turntable. You will see what I mean if you take the turntable off and slowly move the arm to the left.

General purpose grease from a car spares shop such as Halfords will be fine for the gears and spring, and sewing machine oil perfect for the rest.

Gaskets and diaphragms can be obtained from Ken Priestley. (ken@fonograf.com)

If you would like to post the spring to me, I'll be happy to remove, clean and grease it for the cost of the postage.

[DonaldStott]

Managed to remove the Soundbox and this is now safely bubble wrapped pending the upgrade of the rubber gasket and bush (both hard and brittle) along with the diaphragm. An email will be winging its way to Ken Priestly before I tackle anything in and around the Soundbox.

Delving deeper I've got the motor box out and have removed the cover.

These gears, cogs and other components really are works of beauty - precision engineering - see pictures.below. Everything seems to be in good condition with few signs of wear, my only concern being the oiled pad that regulates the speed?

Audio1950 - will send PM about spring - thanks for the very generous offer.

Meantime I can crack on with removing all the remaining metallic fixtures and fittings for cleaning and can start work on refurbishing the Rexine that covers the case.

[mark_in_manc]

I don't reckon that pad should be oiled. As the speed goes up the bob-weights fly out and this pulls the brass brake disk up the shaft towards this pad. How far it goes depends on where the pad is, which is set by your speed selection. When it hits the pad the speed continues to rise (adding more pad-disk pressure, and so more friction) until the power loss at the pad (pus all the other losses) equals the power supplied the spring. Then the platter stops accelerating and you get constant velocity rotation. If it is oiled, the coefficient of friction will drop and you'll need more pad-disk force to get the required losses for a given speed.

Someone will be along in a minute to tell me that that's all very well, but they last longer if you oil them We'll see.

[Audio1950]

Sorry to disagree, but oiling that pad is essential. If it is dry, then it will "judder" on the brass disc and cause speed variation. This is not just my opinion, HMV emphasise on their record sleeves and also on the lubrication chart pasted inside the case of every gramophone that left the factory that the pad must be oiled.

[DonaldStott]

I've attached a couple of close-up photographs of the oiled pad that regulates the speed - seems (to me) to be in quite poor condition?

Can these be bought as spares or is there a suitable alternative??

[Techman]

It doesn't look brilliant, but with a drop of oil it'll probably out live you - and me!

[Audio1950]

I agree, that looks about par for the course. Apart from which, trying to open up that circle that holdS the felt pad can result in it snapping. Been there - done that!

Barry

[DonaldStott]

Thanks guys - if it ain't broke etc.

Once the motor is cleaned a drop of oil will be applied to the pad.

[Audio1950]

Originally Posted by DonaldStott

Once the motor is cleaned a drop of oil will be applied to the pad.

Don't just put a drop on, soak it! By the way, not 3-in-1, that goes sticky after a while. Sewing machine or hair clipper oil is ideal.

Barry

[mark_in_manc]

Originally Posted by Audio1950

Sorry to disagree

S'alright, I like being disagreed with when I'm wrong

[DonaldStott]

Just a quick update to say that matters are progressing quite well with the disassembly of the case and components to facilitate restoration - some really nasty rusted screws/bolts that are going to need a little bit of encouragement!

Anyone tried Plusgas as an alternative to WD40??

The tone arm, board and internal horn are stuck fast to each other and will need to come out in one piece!

All the metal components - hinges, catches, handle brackets, corner brackets etc. will need cleaned up but I'll ensure these are finished appropriately when refitted.

The Rexine case isn't too bad with some minor tears and scuffs which can easily be fixed with some PVA/water moisture. I took apart the lid due to mould inside the record flap but luckily found a strip of Rexine that overlaps which could be removed for restoration. The wooden motor board (Essex board??) is showing some signs of de-lamination so I'm assuming that some PVA suitably applied and clamped will fix that?

I've also stripped down the HMV No 59 motor with the help of the video here: -

http://www.restore-a-gram.co.uk/hmv-...tle/4589562019

An excellent website with a treasure trove of fascinating advice, guidance and insight - exchanged emails with Graham as well - very helpful.

So the spring case is now free of the motor and ready to be packed up and sent off to Audio1950 (Barry) for cleaning and re-greasing. Thanks again Barry for this service.

But as usual we have to end with some not so good news - my Soundbox No.4 is made from pot metal and will likely shatter if I attempt to open it to replace the diaphragm and gasket - pictures below. Ken Priestley has advised "I would not even try to work on this sound box ... Your best plan is to obtain a replacement."

Anyone got a brass No.4 Soundbox??

[DonaldStott]

Another update to say that the disassembly is now 90% complete - as I said in a previous Post the tone arm, board and internal horn are stuck fast to each other and will need to come out in one piece - a couple of pictures here: -



Meantime my spring and case are with Audio1950 (Barry) for cleaning and re-greasing.

The Soundbox No.4 back is made from pot metal so I'm considering a number of options before I attempt to take it apart. If I am able to of course due to the known problems with the small bolts shearing and the back breaking. Still on the look out for a brass No. 4 back.

The motor has also been stripped down as far as needed although I've left the spindle in place - don't you think though that the governor armature is a thing of beauty: -

[Audio1950]

You're lucky there, later versions of the governors were made of the dreaded pot-metal, and true to form, swelled and cracked, eventually jamming on the spindle, and ultimately falling apart.

Barry

[DonaldStott]

Currently working on restoring the Rexine on the lid and internal record storage flap which is fully disassembled.

Unfortunately at one point the lid has suffered from water damage and I've had to peel back some of the Rexine to clean away some mould residue - yuck! I'm able to use a brush to apply a 4:1 water/PVA mix and this is working well using a wallpaper seam roller to flatten it out.

The water damage though has meant that part of the HMV logo has started to flake off and the remainder is quite fragile and powdery. There were a few Posts previously that mentioned water slide transfers (or similar) and wondered if anyone had a working solution to replace such HMV logos??

And while I'm here, anyone got a UK source for half inch wide black felt - self-adhesive if possible??

[Audio1950]

I've sent you a PM to say your spring is done, and I have some black felt you can cut into strips. I presume this is to line the edges of the record pocket? If so, attach it with neat PVA. I think you'll find that anything "self- adhesive" will peel off after a while.

Barry

[DonaldStott]

Thanks again Barry for cleaning, re-greasing and getting my spring back into it's case. The other motor parts have been soaking in petrol for a few days now so everything should come together at the weekend - will Post some pictures, hopefully!

And of course I'll take your advice and use neat PVA to attach the black felt strips in the record pocket.