UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Television and Video

Notices

Vintage Television and Video Vintage television and video equipment, programmes, VCRs etc.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 20th Sep 2017, 8:21 pm   #1
samjmann
Heptode
 
samjmann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Nottingham, UK.
Posts: 645
Default Early remote control TV's

Hi all,

I was talking with another ex Tv engineer recently about the first true wireless remote control Tv's in the UK. The earliest I can remember were the Grundig 6010 110 degree sets around 1974. There was also the Philips
G9 ultrasonic remote which consisted of a metal rod that resonated after being heavily whacked by a spring! 1975ish I think!

I know that in the States they had a Zenith light based system in the fifties. Can anyone with long memories think of what the first UK sets that had remote control were?

Regards, SJM.
samjmann is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2017, 8:21 pm   #2
ms660
Dekatron
 
ms660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 13,454
Default Re: Early remote control Tv's

The pinger...

Lawrence.
ms660 is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2017, 8:34 pm   #3
FERNSEH
Dekatron
 
FERNSEH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 7,444
Default Re: Early remote control Tv's

Don't forget the Philco "SelectaFlash" remote control system. A torch was used as the remote controller. Never came across it myself but I'm told it was quite a good system.
Was available in TVs made between 1960 to 1962.

DFWB.
FERNSEH is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2017, 8:35 pm   #4
jayceebee
Heptode
 
jayceebee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Durham, County Durham, UK.
Posts: 640
Default Re: Early remote control Tv's

The earliest wireless remote controlled set I encountered was a Murphy Astra model. See this thread for more details.
jayceebee is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2017, 8:56 pm   #5
FERNSEH
Dekatron
 
FERNSEH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 7,444
Default Re: Early remote control Tv's

Extract from #38 of topic TV developments in 1960:

Remote control TVs were the big thing in 1960 but many were just the simple long cable systems, nothing clever about that. Dynatron went one better and introduced a cordless ultrasonic remote control system which offered the user channel change and volume up and down.

From Wireless and Electrical Trader, 3 September 1960: The three button control demand three distinguishable channels of operation, otherwise the channel would change when the volume was adjusted. the distinction takes the form of a note of a different frequency. The channel selector works on approximately 40kc/s and the volume "up" and "down" controls are 3Kc/s above and below that respectively.
The three button handset is a transistorised unit. The three channel receiver employs valves. A stepper type of motor is used to control the volume.

DFWB.

Last edited by FERNSEH; 20th Sep 2017 at 9:18 pm.
FERNSEH is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2017, 12:34 pm   #6
Welsh Anorak
Dekatron
 
Welsh Anorak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Wales, UK.
Posts: 6,884
Default Re: Early remote control TV's

That's a surprise. Later Dynatrons up to the Pye 697 in the colour era still used a clunky box on a trip wire. I wonder how successful the system described above was?
The Seventies brought the remote control into widespread use. The Continentals were the first to employ wireless remote control. The earliest I remember was the Saba F series that was a complex ultrasonic system employing motorised rotary controls on the TV itself - it was a sight to behold. Grundig and Telefunken weren't far behind, but over here we had Rank and Philips with the 'pinger'. Not sure when the first infra red system came out - possibly Grundig? The last ultrasonic I remember was the Rediffusion Mk3 or possibly the G11.
Glyn
Welsh Anorak is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2017, 12:54 pm   #7
Nuvistor
Dekatron
 
Nuvistor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Wigan, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 9,427
Default Re: Early remote control TV's

The Dynatron 697 remote common fault was a break in the wires near the hand set. At least it was an easy fix, usually plenty of wire to shorten the cable by 6 inches.
__________________
Frank
Nuvistor is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2017, 5:58 pm   #8
samjmann
Heptode
 
samjmann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Nottingham, UK.
Posts: 645
Default Re: Early remote control TV's

Thinking back, the Grundig 6010 used multi-frequency ultrasonic tones for each function. The remote had contact springs that used to go soft and make the handset transmit one function all the time! There was some strange memory units on the control pcb that 'stored' each control setting value. I never did fully understand how these worked...

The G11 used both PCM ultrasonic and later infra red PCM on some models

SJM
samjmann is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2017, 7:13 pm   #9
Philips210
Nonode
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Redruth, Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 2,562
Default Re: Early remote control TV's

Hi.

Wasn't there an ultrasonic remote control version of the RBM A823 series? I remember the Thorn 9000 series had an ultrasonic r/c system, I think that was a 9200/9250 chassis if my memory serves me correctly. Didn't some versions of the Philips G8 have a simple ultrasonic control system like the G9 chassis?

I liked the system that ITT used on their CVC30/32 chassis, the ultrasonic remote control handset plugged into the front of the set. The various control functions were then conveyed to the r/c receiver decoder via a connector on the remote control, the ultrasonic transducer being disabled.

ITT also had a simple U/S system on their hybrid CVC9 chassis.

Regards
Symon.
Philips210 is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2017, 7:37 pm   #10
G6Tanuki
Dekatron
 
G6Tanuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 13,951
Default Re: Early remote control TV's

I have memories of playing with the 40KHz TV ultrasonic remote transducers as a kid: a bunch of them paralleled and driven by a beefy oscillator/driver stage - with AM on the driver - and a rather simple single-transistor-and-diode-detector receiver, we could work over something like 250 yards!

I bet the local bats were less-than-impressed.
G6Tanuki is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2017, 7:49 pm   #11
FERNSEH
Dekatron
 
FERNSEH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 7,444
Default Re: Early remote control TV's

Philips210 wrote: "Wasn't there an ultrasonic remote control version of the RBM A823 series?"
Indeed there was a remote system offered in the last incarnations of the A823B series, 1975 or 1976? The ultrasonic handset has only one button but by clever circuits it was possible to implement two functions, channel stepper and sound muting.
When the handset button is pressed and released the 40Khz burst of signal is picked up by the receiver. The clever part comes in because it is the trailing edge of the pulse of signal that activates the channel change. To mute the sound the handset button is held down for three seconds or so, the long burst of signal ramps up a voltage in the receiver until the critical point is reached to trigger the sound muting. A quick blip of the button restores the sound, it is leading edge of the signal pulse that implements that function.
This remote control system was carried over to the Z718 and T20 models.

DFWB.

Last edited by FERNSEH; 21st Sep 2017 at 7:54 pm.
FERNSEH is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2017, 11:07 pm   #12
Richard_FM
Octode
 
Richard_FM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Stockport, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 1,999
Default Re: Early remote control TV's

In an episode of The Good Life Tom & Barbara get the chance to spend a weekend in a flat of a friend.

The TV has a very large basic remote control, does any idea what model.

Old TV's used in films & TV is almost a thread in it's self.
Richard_FM is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2017, 12:01 am   #13
AC/HL
Dekatron
 
AC/HL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 9,637
Default Re: Early remote control TV's

Two threads actually: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=102254
and: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=96824 for the misplaced ones!
AC/HL is online now  
Old 22nd Sep 2017, 12:34 am   #14
julie_m
Dekatron
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Derby, UK.
Posts: 7,735
Default Re: Early remote control TV's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_FM View Post
Old TV's used in films & TV is almost a thread in it's self.
More than one thread, even, depending how serious a mood you are in .....
__________________
If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.
julie_m is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2017, 10:31 am   #15
Peter.N.
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Charmouth, Dorset, UK.
Posts: 3,601
Default Re: Early remote control TV's

I seem to remember several 'pinger' controls in the '50s, as I recall Murphy had one as did Ultra and one I have in a draw in the workshop only can't remember what that is - just been and had a look, its a Philips and only has one button - and found I had left the mains on all night.

Peter
Peter.N. is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2017, 10:49 am   #16
Heatercathodeshort
Dekatron
 
Heatercathodeshort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING.
Posts: 9,145
Default Re: Early remote control TV's

Speaking of remote control, don't forget the Ekco series TC386 manufactured in the very early 60's. That also incorporated a light beam to activate the motor tuner and muting.This must have been one of the very last true Ekcovision models produced at the Southend factory.

Hello Peter, that sounds like the Philips G8 cat scarer. J.
Heatercathodeshort is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2017, 10:55 am   #17
FERNSEH
Dekatron
 
FERNSEH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 7,444
Default Re: Early remote control TV's

One of the earliest motorised tuner and remote controlled TV sets was a series of models manufactured in the UK by Philco. Made in 1957 the "Philcomatic" models are A1967, A1960 and A2160. This group of models also had FM radio. Service information for these sets can be found in the 1957/58 Radio and Television book.
The "Philcomatic" remote control system was available as an option possibly only in the larger console models A1961 and A1962.
The tuner unit employed in these receivers was the Cyldon type C.
From Americanradiohistory. Practical Television May 1957, pages 456 and 478:

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/...on-1957-05.pdf

DFWB.
FERNSEH is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2017, 8:48 pm   #18
Tractorfan
Dekatron
 
Tractorfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: St. Frajou, l'Isle en Dodon, Haute Garonne, France.(Previously: Ellesmere Port, Cheshire, UK.)
Posts: 3,177
Smile Re: Early remote control TV's

Hi,
I remember having an old Ekco 17" telly as a lad that had an octal socket on the back of the chassis which was for a remote controller. I think there was a switch activated by the plug which may have disabled the controls on the set itself. I never had the remote control, and my memory is vague.
Cheers, Pete.
__________________
"Hello?, Yes, I'm on the train, I might lose the signal soon as we're just going into a tunn..."
Tractorfan is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2017, 8:59 pm   #19
Tim
Dekatron
 
Tim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Bradford on Avon, Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 3,301
Default Re: Early remote control TV's

I had a Panasonic VHS video recorder that had a "wired" remote control connected via a 2.5mm(I think) jack. It was fed with about 10 volts and pressing the buttons put various resistances "across the pair", and presumably the unit measured the current coming back and derived a voltage from it. STOP was dead short.
One could connect a potentiometer in and watch it freak out!
A friend had one, and he told me how it worked, so I was able to make my own remote control with a few push buttons, resistors and a little plastic box.
__________________
"Nothing is as dangerous as being too modern;one is apt to grow old fashioned quite suddenly."
Tim is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2017, 9:33 pm   #20
FERNSEH
Dekatron
 
FERNSEH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 7,444
Default Re: Early remote control TV's

From the Wireless & Electrical Trader, 3 September 1960.
Radio Show Technical Review. An explanation of the remote control systems employed in the Dynatron ultrasonic three function wireless handset and receiver and also the HMV "Mastersonic" system.

DFWB.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	W&T1960_RCsystems_1.jpg
Views:	91
Size:	178.5 KB
ID:	149821   Click image for larger version

Name:	W&T1960_RCsystems_2.jpg
Views:	146
Size:	85.8 KB
ID:	149822  
FERNSEH is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 3:27 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.