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Old 7th Feb 2018, 8:40 pm   #1
steve.w
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Default Friedland Westminster Door Chime

Hello friends.

I have just bought this Friedland Westminster door bell which needs a 16 volt transformer. Having looked about on the internet I can't seem to find something which I reckon would be suitable.

Do any of the kind people on here has any ideas as to how I can get a 16V mains transformer which would power my doorbell safely, and which doesn't cost a fortune?

Many thanks, Steve.
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 8:59 pm   #2
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Default Re: Friedland Westminster Door Chime

Does it need to be exactly 16v? 15v is quite a common value and I would have thought it would be good enough. Otherwise if a search for a 16v doorbell transformer for sale/auction doesn't turn up anything suitable I think 16v is also quite common for train controllers.
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 10:03 pm   #3
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Default Re: Friedland Westminster Door Chime

Hello there. thanks for your thoughts. I expect 1 volt won't make much difference.

I tried testing the chime on 12 volts and although it tried to work, not much really happened....certainly no chimes!

Steve
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 10:25 pm   #4
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Default Re: Friedland Westminster Door Chime

I was given my Westminster by my late father-in-law who salvaged it from a house he was rewiring, it ran here on a Friedland 764 12V 1A transformer for about 20 years. He also gave me a brass bell push with a porcelain PRESS that must be at least 100 years old by now.

These door-chimes have a bit of a design flaw.
As you know, it uses a paxolin wafer switch as the sequencer, one pole of the switch is a continuous metal ring apart from a small gap, so it knows where to stop. The bell push just shorts across that switch to start the motor.

The problem arises because the motor is a self-starting unidirectional synchronous motor, there's a 50% chance that it will try and run in reverse, If it does there is a mechanism inside the motor that stalls it, and it will try again. It could make three or four attempts before it is running correctly and by that time your guest may have taken his finger off the bell-push.

You will know to keep your finger on the button for a second or two, but your visitors will sometimes be more timid, especially if they don't know if the bell can be heard from outside.

I cured this with a rather crude circuit consisting of a reed relay, a 400uF capacitor and a diode in a sort of 1-shot monostable arrangement

After 20 years the wafer switch got very worn and eventually it was relegated to a junk box in the garage where it languished for a further ten years.

This is where things get controversial, if you like old things preserved as they were originally.

My wife found the bell and asked if it could be repaired as she quite liked it.
It so happened it coincided with me getting in to Arduinos, and programming little microcontroller projects, so, to cut an already too long story a bit shorter, my Westminster Chime is back on the hall wall with a little PCB with a ATTiny85 and 4 NPN transistors driving the solenoids. It now runs from a 12V DC wall-wart.

Unforgivable, I know, but it does play all four "quarters" and not just the third quarter as yours will do.
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 10:34 pm   #5
steve.w
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Default Re: Friedland Westminster Door Chime

Hi, Yes it is the vintage one. Maybe i need to spend a little more time on it. It hasn't been used in years....maybe something is a bit sticky!
At the moment when you put a current to it, the little mo tor tries to turn but only moves a fraction, so maybe its just dirty or needs some oil. I will investigate this.
Thanks for the modern option too. Ive no idea, unfortunately, where to start on such a circuit, although it sounds fabulous!
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 10:46 pm   #6
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Default Re: Friedland Westminster Door Chime

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve.w View Post
I tried testing the chime on 12 volts and although it tried to work, not much really happened....certainly no chimes!
12V AC or DC?
It needs to be AC.
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 10:49 pm   #7
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Default Re: Friedland Westminster Door Chime

Graham...thats a thought, I only used one of those multi voltage things you can buy in argos to test it earlier as I only got it today. Had to go to work too so didn't have much time.
I will double check that too.
thanks
Steve
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 11:04 pm   #8
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Default Re: Friedland Westminster Door Chime

Those are invariably DC, it won't work I'm afraid, but it won't have caused any damage either.

If you can open it you could probably get the correct AC voltage from the transformer's secondary, assuming it's not switch-mode, but if it's the common small unit with a multi-way slide switch, they are typically only rated at 300mA and it might not be enough.
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 11:21 pm   #9
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Default Re: Friedland Westminster Door Chime

Graham, yes, you're right. That would explain why it just did a short movement. I will have to try it on the current doorbell circuit. I bet it will work then.
I will keep you posted.

Steve
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 12:00 am   #10
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Default Re: Friedland Westminster Door Chime

Hear's my modified chime sounding all four quarters.
https://youtu.be/PIwZuu1fK-c
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 12:20 am   #11
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Default Re: Friedland Westminster Door Chime

thats great Graham
thanks
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 9:37 pm   #12
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Default Re: Friedland Westminster Door Chime

Well, I shouldn't have rushed to make the thread.
If I'd have just tried hooking it onto the current bell circuit in the first place.
The current circuit runs on 12 volts, and although I haven't wired the bell onto it, I was able to use the power to get the bell working. It seems to be OK. Not sure how it manages to keep going though to complete the 8 notes. If I took a wire off, it stopped straight away. Maybe it will be fine though once properly wired in.... a weekend job.
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 10:22 pm   #13
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Default Re: Friedland Westminster Door Chime

On the top three screw terminals, the left and centre should be permanently wired to your 12VAC transformer.

The centre and right go to the bell push.

This means that if the transformer lives near to the bell-push, and the chime is in a different place, you need three wires between them.
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 11:48 pm   #14
steve.w
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Default Re: Friedland Westminster Door Chime

Ah. i see, so it has a continuous power supply!
thank you so much.
We're getting a little excited now in my house. My two boys were very impressed with the chime!
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Old 9th Feb 2018, 2:02 am   #15
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Default Re: Friedland Westminster Door Chime

Yes, the steady supply is needed in order to keep the timing mechanism and chime solenoids going even after the bell push has been released.
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Old 7th May 2020, 3:23 pm   #16
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Default Re: Friedland Westminster Door Chime

Thread reopened at request of forum member David G.
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Old 8th May 2020, 5:56 pm   #17
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Default Re: Friedland Westminster Door Chime

I also have a Friedland Westminster 603 Chimes which worked without problem for 40 odd years, however we moved late last year and now I cannot get the unit to work. Unfortunately, I left the original transformer behind and my unit requires a 12V; I can only find 8, 16, 20V transformers. Also, I don't have a wiring diagram but believe I have determined a useable system. I'm using a 16 V transformer and have had the chimes working but not continually. Any assistance would be very welcome.
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Old 9th May 2020, 3:25 am   #18
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Default Re: Friedland Westminster Door Chime

Hi David, and welcome.

I've never seen a 603, apparently it's the chime in the intro of Paul McCartney's "Let 'Em In'".

I found this image of the connections.
So, 1&2 direct from the 12 (or 16V)AC from the transformer,
and the bell push to 4 & 5.

Is that the way you've wired it? Four wires?
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Old 9th May 2020, 9:00 am   #19
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Default Re: Friedland Westminster Door Chime

In that position does it just play the sequence of notes shown (i.e. the second bar of the four), or are those notes just a shorthand for the entire Westminster chime?

I assume the other two options are a single "ding" and a single "dong" respectively.
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Old 9th May 2020, 3:01 pm   #20
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Default Re: Friedland Westminster Door Chime

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Moll View Post
In that position does it just play the sequence of notes shown (i.e. the second bar of the four), or are those notes just a shorthand for the entire Westminster chime?

I assume the other two options are a single "ding" and a single "dong" respectively.
The servants and tradesman's entrances would not require the full fanfare.

Thin end of the wedge.
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