UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Amateur and Military Radio

Notices

Vintage Amateur and Military Radio Amateur/military receivers and transmitters, morse, and any other related vintage comms equipment.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 22nd Aug 2018, 5:34 pm   #61
turretslug
Dekatron
 
turretslug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 4,381
Default Re: HRO and BC348

Quote:
Originally Posted by HamishBoxer View Post
Agreed Lawrence,inc the wrong valves and bases!
There does seem to have been a trend for mutilating (for want of a better word) many rather nice old pieces of gear, presumably when they were still plentiful and there wasn't the same historical respect that there is now. I once acquired a shockingly 'got at' BC348 (for £1, I felt it was worth it simply for fasteners and hardware) whose 6K7s had been replaced by 6SG7s- whoever had done the change obviously didn't like soldering as they had extended the grid-cap connection to pin 4 of the IO base by twisting gash bits of wire around the connections! The other base connections had been cropped and re-connected in similar fashion, random bits of insulating tape attempting to hide the sin Dear, oh dear.

I wonder if there are any BC348s that have survived without some indignity being inflicted at some point. A neat and safe internal mains PSU is fair enough, but it's an ugly enough radio without the file and hacksaw being let loose on the front panel and case! Wobbly lines of ragged ventilation holes seemed to be popular with some. Similarly, I can't help thinking that a nice original HRO with a line-up of 6D6s etc. would be more desirable than something that had been "improved" with EF183s, ECC88s, whatever.
turretslug is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2018, 5:53 pm   #62
Jon_G4MDC
Nonode
 
Jon_G4MDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Welwyn Garden City, Hertfordshire, UK.
Posts: 2,013
Default Re: HRO and BC348

Guilty m'lud on putting an AC PSU in a '348 but such a painful set otherwise.

Also on the shelf is the GT-Turbo, Cross flowed - Whizzy HRO with B9A valves in some places. Not my doing but it stays that way because it is a historical item.
I have all the mod articles and most have been done. It's a gem but it takes off and flys at times if used carelessly.

I mostly use a bog standard one with 6D6s,6C6s and a '42 which arrived with water dripping out of it. I have changed a few caps added an AF output transformer and it's a winner. Putting 10uF on the screen of the '42 helps with hum level when using lowZ headphones.

Both of them have history - it's just different.
Jon_G4MDC is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2018, 6:28 pm   #63
usradcoll1
Heptode
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Cedar Grove, Wisconsin, USA.
Posts: 823
Default Re: HRO and BC348

Quote:
Originally Posted by turretslug View Post
There does seem to have been a trend for mutilating (for want of a better word) many rather nice old pieces of gear, presumably when they were still plentiful and there wasn't the same historical respect that there is now. I once acquired a shockingly 'got at' BC348 (for £1, I felt it was worth it simply for fasteners and hardware) whose 6K7s had been replaced by 6SG7s- whoever had done the change obviously didn't like soldering as they had extended the grid-cap connection to pin 4 of the IO base by twisting gash bits of wire around the connections! The other base connections had been cropped and re-connected in similar fashion, random bits of insulating tape attempting to hide the sin Dear, oh dear.

I wonder if there are any BC348s that have survived without some indignity being inflicted at some point. A neat and safe internal mains PSU is fair enough, but it's an ugly enough radio without the file and hacksaw being let loose on the front panel and case! Wobbly lines of ragged ventilation holes seemed to be popular with some. Similarly, I can't help thinking that a nice original HRO with a line-up of 6D6s etc. would be more desirable than something that had been "improved" with EF183s, ECC88s, whatever.
I don't have an HRO, but I do have several versions of the BC348. The earlier versions used the grid-cap valves and were made by RCA, Stromberg-Carlson and Belmont.
The newer generation 348's seemed to be all built by Wells-Gardner. They used the single-ended valves, 6SK7 etc.
A few of my sets are very original, both versions and a few with a lot of alterations.
More later!
Dave, Midwest USA.
usradcoll1 is offline  
Old 23rd Aug 2018, 9:27 pm   #64
G6Tanuki
Dekatron
 
G6Tanuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 13,925
Default Re: HRO and BC348

To be honest - I don't see 'appropriate' modifications to vintage radios as in any way wrong: if it keeps them in-service I'd wholeheartedly commend them, just as I'm happy to see old cars upgraded to run on umleaded petrol and fitted with radial tyres.

What I hate is the 'museum-piece' whose unmolested outsides are reverentially polished, whose insides are full of long-since-leaky paper capacitors/old carbon-resistors that have drifted way beyond their original 1930s 20% tolerance etc, and whose RF circuits have not seen a live-from-an-antenna signal for decades.

Better a respectfully-upgraded oldie in daily use [and in the case of something like a HRO/BC348 I am happy with the likes of a 6AK5 as the first RF amp, along with product-detectors] than such a radio sitting dumb on a shelf to be 'worshipped' as a bit of dead history.
G6Tanuki is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2018, 7:34 am   #65
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,763
Default Re: HRO and BC348

Back in the sixties, BC348, 19 set, R1155, R107 etc where all you could afford, and you wanted to get on HF. You didn't want a dynamotor grinding away, you didn't want to have a large lead-acid battery in your bedroom. Building in a mains power supply ans an audio output stage was pretty much essential.

People wanted amateur radio stations, not museums. Posterity didn't get a look-in.

These radios had a pecking order. Illustrated in units of pounds, shillings and pence.

The AR88 was pretty much top of the heap. It had everything you needed already in one box and it worked well.

The HRO was up there too, through simple performance. Most people had to build their own PSU, the sets got separated from their companions somewhere at some depot. Speaker transformers were often added.

And down the price list you went. R1155s needed a fair bit of mods to make them useful. 19 sets were more limited, but did transmit!

I really can't blame the people at the time. They were modifying common-as-muck surplus stuff, not rare and precious stuff.

I wonder a bit about people assembling R1155/T1154 setups with all the trimmings. Their gardens are too small to finish the job and complete the Lanc or Halifax, and besides who are they going to bomb? Where do you stop?

A full WWII radio setup on demo to the public could be rather educational and could gather some interest. Hidden in a shed or attic doesn't do this. Taking such a setup on the air could be fun and would show other radio users what the things sounded like.

When I see the detail some people have gone to, I can't help feeling that the right place for it would be in a museum, but being operated and the visitors invited to get hands on.

Impressive work needs a supply of victims to impress.

Maybe the Dulwich museum ought to put on the occasional (manned) display in a shopping centre? The Museum of Communications does touring displays to schools.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2018, 8:45 am   #66
turretslug
Dekatron
 
turretslug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 4,381
Default Re: HRO and BC348

No particular objection here to anything from pragmatic repair to thorough rebuild of vintage kit- and there are quite a few old things here comprehensively refurbished with metal film resistors, plastic film capacitors and so on- more puzzlement and dismay at the way some folk actually incorporated what they felt were "improvements"! I find the standard of construction of some ex-professional kit really admirable, and that gives an incentive to try to do remedial work to at least that standard. When I come across a comms receiver that probably cost HM Taxpayer the equivalent of thousands of 2018 pounds whose replacement mains transformer is retained by a single wood screw, I think, I do hope this person's day job doesn't involve aeroplanes, or even bicycles....

I've read some of the '60s/'70s articles about various end-of-era wizzy low noise valves being retro-fitted, but I was always a tad sceptical- even the CR100 I owned (never mind later/more sophisticated sets) could be sharply noise peaked with input terminated on its highest frequencies, which made me think that there were more fundamental blocks to improving sensitivity than bunging in a sexy cascode front end whose AGC characteristics might have been unfavourably out of kilter with the other controlled valves anyway. I'll concede that that may be a somewhat simplistic analysis, and maybe if I'd been a radio amateur really keen on 20MHz+ performance, I'd have found worthwhile return- but a lot of the earnest "modding" talk made me think of all the Mk2 Escorts and Yamaha FS1Es that had lots of time, effort and possibly money spent on "hotting" that resulted in conveyance noisier, thirstier, less tractable and less dependable than something that had been left alone, all for the sake of a quivering speedo needle allegedly just higher than before on a long flat empty road! Of course, everyone has the right to do as they please with their own property- but I do wonder about effort vs. return with some things that get done.
turretslug is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2018, 8:50 am   #67
ex seismic
Heptode
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tonbridge, Kent, UK.
Posts: 679
Default Re: HRO and BC348

Indignities. Yes, our club has just been given a load of stuff from an ex-SWL including a largely untouched BC348 except it has no front panel! Why? Who would throw it away? It has a half-hearted unfinished attempt at a panel made out of flimsy ali sheet but some of the holes are in the wrong place.
Virtually all the kit that came to us has had the serial number plates removed, I've met this before, why do people do it?

Gordon
G7KNS
ex seismic is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2018, 8:59 am   #68
turretslug
Dekatron
 
turretslug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 4,381
Default Re: HRO and BC348

Yes!- I saw an AR88LF recently (so may a few others here....) whose tuning scale, logging scale, meter blank and panel mask had all been removed to fit a linear, pointer and string tuning scale in the panel slot with scruffy hand-written frequencies on the paper backing at intervals far coarser than the rotary original. Pourquoi?
turretslug is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2018, 2:50 pm   #69
G3VKM_Roger
Heptode
 
G3VKM_Roger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Southeast Norfolk, UK.
Posts: 772
Default Re: HRO and BC348

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex seismic View Post
Indignities. Yes, our club has just been given a load of stuff from an ex-SWL including a largely untouched BC348 except it has no front panel! Why? Who would throw it away? It has a half-hearted unfinished attempt at a panel made out of flimsy ali sheet but some of the holes are in the wrong place.
Virtually all the kit that came to us has had the serial number plates removed, I've met this before, why do people do it?
The BC-348 often turns up with an S meter fitted, so perhaps the previous owner had taken the panel off to drill a big hole?

73

Roger
G3VKM_Roger is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2018, 8:52 pm   #70
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,763
Default Re: HRO and BC348

Some of the 1960's 'improvements' are atrocious. Some were founded on dodgy beliefs. Few people had the gear to be able to do the tests to find out if there actually was an improvement. I've seen AR88s converted to miniature valves with far too much gain given the numbers of stages. Cascode front ends, added product detectors, you name it. I got given an HRO converted to miniature valves and passed it on to someone else who wanted one to restore.

My own AR88 has original type 6SG7 in all RF and IF amplifier positions, no product detector. I resisted the temptation for the Shortwave mag mod to put a Western Electric 717A in the front position. Something so exotic looking ought to be wonderful, right? A friend's dad's AR88 had one but it didn't sound any better. So i get the full unadulterated AR88 experience. But that was an easy choice to make.

Had I got an R1155 or 19 set, I'd have been moving heaven and earth to improve it, but I hope I'd have insisted on real improvements.


One local radio amateur in the late 1960's acquired some RA17 spares. The VFOs and the Wadley filters. What he was missing were the front panel, the entire final IF and the power supply. So he set out and made his own RA17. It acquired a number of differences along the way. The IF was shifted and real SSB filters used, the finished thing was gorgeous and a tribute to it's builder. Now this receiver is worth preserving as it is. I don't know what has become of it. The builder gave it to another amateur who went silent key some 15 years ago, and I haven't heard of the guy who built it for some years.

I've seen the horror bodge jobs and the proverbial woodscrews, but some, just a few, are true works of art.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2018, 12:55 am   #71
dave walsh
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex.
Posts: 5,803
Default Re: HRO and BC348

Yes I've seen some home brew Radio "Amateur" constructions that have been amazing works of art, in effect but have probably gone unrecognised and been destroyed long ago. It is true that surplus gear was seen as the basis for an accessible hobby but some modifications are a bit inexplicable now and perhaps then! Even the "cheap" stuff had to be saved up for so it wasn't always just a case of ripping it apart and all the sets were looked upon with varying degrees of envy.

Some people were clearly very keen on the BC348 with the little cheese slice opening on the front [J B Nick post 30*] but I could never understand that.
It had a "cast"sort of construction which made it a bit impenetrable outside and particularly, in [R1155 like]. There was the Dynamotor PSU problem and the [to me] lack of a proper dial.Not really a Radio in my terms. The AR88 [Rolls Royce] which I couldn't get anywhere near to owning but experienced via a local Amateur, also had a small dial but then with so much more to recommend it!

Dave W
dave walsh is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2018, 10:14 am   #72
turretslug
Dekatron
 
turretslug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 4,381
Default Re: HRO and BC348

The BC348 is a curious radio in construction terms, as you say Dave- someone (or some group of people) evidently took a lot of time and effort designing it to be sturdy and compact, but it's nothing like as easily dismantleable or truly modular as a superficial glance might suggest. Yes, it must be a contender for "dourest looking radio ever"- at least the R1155 has the tuning scale reminiscent of the likes of pre-war Ekcos ti mitigate its utilitarianism,

Colin
turretslug is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2018, 6:44 pm   #73
dave walsh
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex.
Posts: 5,803
Default Re: HRO and BC348

I always presumed it was used in an Aircraft Colin but without the "Glamour" not the right word really-of the 1155!

Dave
dave walsh is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2018, 6:51 pm   #74
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,763
Default Re: HRO and BC348

I reckoned the R1155 had the looks, but the BC348 was the better performer and was better put together. I don't suppose either set was expected to survive many missions.

The R1155 has a bit of a following and elevated prices due to the lancaster connection, but many lancs carried BC348s. I once had a crawl through one in flying order at Squire's Gate and that was a BC348 setup.

David

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2018, 7:07 pm   #75
ms660
Dekatron
 
ms660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 13,454
Default Re: HRO and BC348

I liked the original tuning drive mech on the R1155, almost as much as that on the HRO, not a lot to go wrong.

Lawrence.
ms660 is offline  
Old 27th Aug 2018, 8:26 am   #76
G4YVM David
Heptode
 
G4YVM David's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Salisbury, Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 998
Default Re: HRO and BC348

Having the bc348, HRO and 1155sat side by side is good for comparison.

The '55 and HRO tuning arw both good, better IMHO than then 348. The HRO spread/resolution is very good, very fine tuning, but those plug in coils are a pain as is reading freq from a graph.

All told, the '55 tops the lot in my book. Cant bear to sell either though...
G4YVM David is offline  
Old 27th Aug 2018, 1:52 pm   #77
G6Tanuki
Dekatron
 
G6Tanuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 13,925
Default Re: HRO and BC348

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler View Post
I reckoned the R1155 had the looks, but the BC348 was the better performer and was better put together. I don't suppose either set was expected to survive many missions.
That's very true: I'd suspect the majority of those who these days enthuse over such radios fail to appreciate that they were designed with a service-life of only a few months.

In 1944, Ford 's Willow Run production line popped-out a complete B24 Liberator every 63 minutes.

24 hours a day.

7 days a week.

"Designing with maintenance in mind is a luxury when the most-likely need for detailed repair is not component failure but the Luftwaffe and their Ju.88".
G6Tanuki is offline  
Old 27th Aug 2018, 5:30 pm   #78
turretslug
Dekatron
 
turretslug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 4,381
Default Re: HRO and BC348

It's an interesting and rather testing quandary for production designers- in peacetime, boxes of gubbins are purchased in small quantities and are expected to last for many years but in WW2 they were wanted quickly in ten, then rapidly a hundred times (multiplication factors illustrative only....) the original numbers and hopefully with costs pared down (war bonds can be sold, gold reserves plundered, but the bills need to be squared at some point!). How far can something be cheapened before it imperils aircraft and crews through increased unreliabilty and reduced effectiveness? Both R1155 and BC348 contained sub-assemblies that could be put together by the sort of factories and workforce that were used to consumer manufacture but were screwed and hard-wired together- plug-and-socket modularity would add somewhat to both expense and bulk and, at least potentially, unreliabilty. As mentioned, they weren't at the end of the day expected to last very long, so being pigs to repair/maintain wasn't as big a problem as with peace-time kit. In any case, by time one BC348 had been opened up, repaired with difficulty and checked for service, another dozen might have rolled off the production lines back in the US anyway, courtesy of Rosie the Riveter (or Sue the Solderer?).
turretslug is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2018, 12:11 pm   #79
Keith
Heptode
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tewkesbury, Gloucestershire, UK.
Posts: 689
Default Re: HRO and BC348

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex seismic View Post
Virtually all the kit that came to us has had the serial number plates removed, I've met this before, why do people do it? Gordon G7KNS

This problem seems particularly to affect the BC348. I wonder if it was a US requirement to remove the ident prior to release for surplus sales. My present receiver is thus afflicted, although otherwise in excellent condition (albeit mains powered). I did plan to make a replica plate using water-slide tranfers but have yet to find a good image. The information will be incorrect, of course but it'll beat looking at four holes! Perhaps a spare plate will turn up one day.
__________________
Keith Yates - G3XGW
VMARS & BVWS member http://www.tibblestone.com/oldradios/Old_Radios.htm
Keith is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2018, 12:52 pm   #80
turretslug
Dekatron
 
turretslug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 4,381
Default Re: HRO and BC348

Bit of a shame, really- the serial plate, particularly when it includes things like contractor's name, equipment functionality and so on is part of the character of vintage kit. Perhaps, with things like the BC348 that were made by a number of different manufactures, there was a gentlemans' agreement that this sort of thing came under commercial confidentiality. Also, the Allies had become expert in deducing the opposition's production capability during WW2, perhaps they had become a little paranoid that minimising the amount of this sort of thing entering the public domain was only wise;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_tank_problem

By this time, the Soviets had implemented production of a near-clone of the BC348 from bombers that had been interned;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC-348...o_controls.JPG
'
turretslug is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:03 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.