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Old 23rd Nov 2020, 11:28 am   #741
SteveCG
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

I searched out Wireless World listings for 1952 on the Web. Belling & Lee ran a regular series of adverts in WW. The search came up with the following:

https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/Wir...ld-1952-10.pdf

On WW page no. 390 there is a photo of some aerials - and yes a B&L 3 element aerial there does not have a bracket and is a plain dipole. So the mystery persists.
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Old 23rd Nov 2020, 5:19 pm   #742
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

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Re: post no. 725,

The BI aerial is made by J-Beam (later known as Jaybeam). G6Tanuki can you confirm that the aerial does indeed point southwards to Rowridge and so would be a Channel 3. The reason I ask is because its proportions look like a Channel 1 (for Crystal Palace).

Incidently, later on Hungerford had a BBC relay on Channel 4, 25 Watts, horizontal polarization.
I'll have to re-visit the location with my compass. I think CP would have been out-of-range for a mere 2-element: even in Newbury, some 15 miles or so closer to CP, 3-elements seemed popular.

Yes, I'm just about to post something about the Hungerford relay!
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Old 23rd Nov 2020, 5:29 pm   #743
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

I was in the Hungerford area again today and took this photo of an antenna that's probably quite a rarity.

Hungerford and the Kennet valley west from Newbury was a bit of a problem-area for VHF TV reception: too far south for Sutton Coldfield/Lichfield, too far West for the London transmitters to reach it reliably and many parts were too much in-the-valley for Rowridge to make it 'over the hill'. So there was a small low-power relay set up just outside Hungerford, to serve the town and surrounding villages [Lambourn, Ramsbury, Axford, Froxfield, Bedwyn).

It was horizontally-polarised, like almost all low-power relays. BI on channel 3; there was also a BIII relay near Marlborough on channel-7.

I think this rather unusual antenna must have been for these relays. Horizontal dipole with a sort-of 'delta feed' for BI, and folded dipole for BIII.

Anyone else seen one like it?
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Old 23rd Nov 2020, 5:31 pm   #744
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

This one's in Marlborough. Pointing south-south-east I guess it's for Rowridge, since it's much too far West for a reliable signal from London, even with a 3-element antenna.
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Old 23rd Nov 2020, 7:44 pm   #745
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCG View Post
I searched out Wireless World listings for 1952 on the Web. Belling & Lee ran a regular series of adverts in WW. The search came up with the following:

https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/Wir...ld-1952-10.pdf

On WW page no. 390 there is a photo of some aerials - and yes a B&L 3 element aerial there does not have a bracket and is a plain dipole. So the mystery persists.
The aerial in the photo ( Wireless World ) was the Belling-Lee three element which we used when I started in the trade. They were very well engineered and time consuming to erect. They lasted well.
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Old 24th Nov 2020, 11:26 am   #746
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Re post no. 744:

That looks like an Antiference 4 element FM aerial (model FM244T) to me... But vertical polarization mounting is unusual for an aerial of that era.
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Old 24th Nov 2020, 9:01 pm   #747
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

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Holme Moss was receivable in Bangor as we had a choice of BBC north and BBC Wales from Llandonna.

Keith
When we lived in Shotton, North East Wales, BBC1 North on ch2 from Holme Moss was incredibly strong at our location and certainly better than both BBC Wales on ch6 from Moel y Parc and BBC1 North West on ch12 from Winter Hill.

Sorry if this is a bit of a wander from the topic.
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Old 25th Nov 2020, 11:39 am   #748
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Re post no. 745:

Akuram1, since you have been fortunate to have your hands on a 3 el B&L can you travel back down memory lane and answer a question about them please? Did B&L have a special way of connecting the 75 Ohm downlead coax to their aerial as the impedance of a plain dipoled 3 el would have been well below 75 Ohms?
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Old 25th Nov 2020, 12:28 pm   #749
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

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Originally Posted by SteveCG View Post
Re post no. 745:

Akuram1, since you have been fortunate to have your hands on a 3 el B&L can you travel back down memory lane and answer a question about them please? Did B&L have a special way of connecting the 75 Ohm downlead coax to their aerial as the impedance of a plain dipoled 3 el would have been well below 75 Ohms?
As far as I remember the download entered the mast through a hole about nine inches from the bottom and there was a short bit of coax from the dipole maybe about two feet with a coax male to female connector inside the pole. There was no coax showing until it came out at the bottom. They had a very good fringe performance. Hope this helps.
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Old 25th Nov 2020, 1:28 pm   #750
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Thanks akuram1 for the info. I guess that B&L may have used a short length of different impedance coax to act as a quarter wave transformer in order to get the downlead to match to the dipole.
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Old 14th Dec 2020, 2:34 pm   #751
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

This BIII antenna - with its coax flapping sadly in the wind - is in central Swindon. It points almost due-West, which confuses me as to what it would receive - both Wenvoe and St.Hilary are too far away!
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Old 17th Dec 2020, 2:58 am   #752
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

If those aerials in Swindon are pointing west it’s most likely to be St Hilary and Wenvoe. It is quite surprising when you drive past Swindon on the M4 or go to Royal Wootten Bassett the VHF/FM signal from Wenvoe is very strong indicating that the VHF 405 line signals from St Hilary and Wenvoe did cover parts of Swindon. I think Swindon has always been considered as part of the BBC West and HTV West television regions back in the 405 line days.
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Old 18th Dec 2020, 5:35 pm   #753
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Yes I think you're right suggesting that they're for St.Hillary/Wenvoe.

I used to live in Leigh (little hamlet just to the north-west of Swindon) and we had 2 UHF TV antennas pointing 180 degrees apart. One was for "West" ITV/BBC, the other pointed at Membury for the 'Central/Midlands' content]

Today I spotted another BIII antenna in 'Old Town' Swindon but didn't have my camera with me. Watch this space.
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Old 29th Dec 2020, 10:37 am   #754
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G6Tanuki View Post
This one's in Marlborough. Pointing south-south-east I guess it's for Rowridge, since it's much too far West for a reliable signal from London, even with a 3-element antenna.
The rods don't look long enough for it to be a Band-1 aerial.
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Old 29th Dec 2020, 10:41 am   #755
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

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Originally Posted by Hybrid tellies View Post
If those aerials in Swindon are pointing west it’s most likely to be St Hilary and Wenvoe. It is quite surprising when you drive past Swindon on the M4 or go to Royal Wootten Bassett the VHF/FM signal from Wenvoe is very strong indicating that the VHF 405 line signals from St Hilary and Wenvoe did cover parts of Swindon. I think Swindon has always been considered as part of the BBC West and HTV West television regions back in the 405 line days.
The Membury Ch12 (horizontal) station came into service in 1965 and gave an excellent signal in the Swindon area. I used to live in Cirencester and could receive it on a wire coat hanger.
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Old 29th Dec 2020, 11:45 am   #756
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Plenty of folks used coat hangers ,till they ruined the aerial socket!
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Old 31st Dec 2020, 3:17 pm   #757
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

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The Membury Ch12 (horizontal) station came into service in 1965 and gave an excellent signal in the Swindon area. I used to live in Cirencester and could receive it on a wire coat hanger.
Yes there are quite a number of small horizontal BIII antennas in the area which I guess were for the first generation of Membury. There was also a BI infill transmitter that covered Swindon - I occasionally see single horizontal dipoles which were clearly used with this too.

[Swindon originally fell into a sort-of RF-hole because it was too far south for good Sutton-Coldfield/Lichfield Midlands Region, too far West for the London stations, too far East for BBC/ITV West, and too far North for the transmitters covering the South Coast]
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Old 31st Dec 2020, 7:10 pm   #758
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

I remember seeing some BBC information about the Swindon band 1 relay, it was on Ch3, horizontal polarisation.. Not the ideal channel as Rowridge was also on 3 and they did say some Co channel interference might be encountered.
They'd have been better off using Ch6 on band3..
Dont think it came on till very late in the 405 era, 1968 or even '69.
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Old 1st Jan 2021, 4:31 pm   #759
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Swindon was on Channel B3, Horiz, 200 Watts, carrying the BBC West region.

Channel 6 as a potential alternative channel may have had interference from Sandy Heath (Horiz) and Ridge Hill (Vert). Channel 6 's allocation had been used by Cambridge Radio-Astronomy until the mid 1960s.
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Old 1st Jan 2021, 4:35 pm   #760
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

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Plenty of folks used coat hangers ,till they ruined the aerial socket!
I used a coat hanger on an old 405 line portable when i lived in Chipping Norton back in the day ,good picture but as you say ,bent the aerial socket until the connection snapped.
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