UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Television and Video

Notices

Vintage Television and Video Vintage television and video equipment, programmes, VCRs etc.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 26th Jun 2004, 7:00 pm   #1
tvden
Retired Dormant Member
 
tvden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Halesworth, Suffolk, UK.
Posts: 413
Default TV set for a beginner

Hi can anyone point me in the right direction, as well as my Radios I am thinking of geting a black and white telly (more trouble I suppose) I do know a little about old TVs but would like to find out if it would be better to start with a dual standard valve set rather than an old 405 line and can anyone recomend a suitable make/ model to get me started : regards Dennis
tvden is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2004, 8:39 pm   #2
high_vacuum_house
Octode
 
high_vacuum_house's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Belper Derbyshire
Posts: 1,982
Default Re: TV set for a beginner

Hello there,
If you are interested in radios and thinking about an old television to restore as a beginner I would stay away from dual standard (405/625 line) sets as these tend to be very complicated especially around the video and timebase circuits.
I would look for a set made around 1950 period as these are fairly simple. Such sets as the Bush TV 24 and the Pye B18T. Also look for any obious signs of work on the set as there may be problems to sort out.
(my Pye B18T had a pot fitted on the side for some reason and whoever did the work modified the circuitry around the CRT base)
Also check that the CRT is intact as getting a replacement is not easy. Apart from that it is look for all the points that you would normally look for when buying an unrestored radio.
Hope this helps.
Christopher Capener
__________________
Interests in the collection and restoration of Tefifon players and 405 line television
high_vacuum_house is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2004, 9:36 pm   #3
BlowFish
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 157
Default Re: TV set for a beginner

Get as much info as well for safe working sets as well as you be dealing with much high voltages, the 405 alive site (part of the BVWS site) has some very good advice (bvws.org)
I agree with Chris the Bush TV24 is a good one to begin with, theres plenty of service info (can be downloaded from Jon's Valve Page, thevalvepage.com)
BlowFish is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2004, 11:48 pm   #4
high_vacuum_house
Octode
 
high_vacuum_house's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Belper Derbyshire
Posts: 1,982
Default Re: TV set for a beginner

There's one thing I forgot, When removing the chassis be extremely careful on how the CRT is supported/attached.
On the Bush TV24 it seems is if there is no front fixing device to hold the CRT in place. This means that the CRT could slip and hang on the focus assembley on the neck . (I know I've done it!! ) remember that spare CRT's are not easy to find and that the CRT has a very high vacuum and if broken could make a nasty mess
Christopher Capener
__________________
Interests in the collection and restoration of Tefifon players and 405 line television
high_vacuum_house is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2004, 1:06 pm   #5
Steve_P
Dekatron
 
Steve_P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 6,646
Default Re: TV set for a beginner

Hi There!

TV restoration is great fun - trust me I know! First of all, read up about it on my site.

www.penders.cwc.net/otindex.html

That's the plug out of the way.
As you say, the best set for a beginner is a dual-standard. It is OK to start with a 405 only set but you need other things such as 405 line tapes and a modulator to give you something to watch.

Of the 625/405 sets there are, I would reccomend the BRC sets, as the LOPTS are often still okay.

Best wishes.

Steve P.
__________________
If we've always had it, why is the Car Boot open? You're not sneaking another Old TV in are you...?
Steve_P is offline  
Old 5th Jul 2004, 6:45 pm   #6
tvden
Retired Dormant Member
 
tvden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Halesworth, Suffolk, UK.
Posts: 413
Default Re: TV set for a beginner

Hi all sorry for delay in replying but I have been away , I would like to thank you all for your advice all of which has been taken on board, I think I will start with a 1950s 405 line set as I have had a little experience with these, and as you say they are the most simple regards Den
tvden is offline  
Old 12th Jul 2004, 12:41 pm   #7
Studio263
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: TV set for a beginner

I would suggest that you go with your first idea and get a dual standard set first, then at least you stand some chance of seeing a picture without major investment in equipment.

Unfortunately, the dual standard era was also a low-point in quality, so most of the sets from this period are very poorly made.

You probably want something with lots of valves in but where there is more than a 0% chance of the line output transformer being any good. This rules out Bush and Philips, and probably Pye and Decca too. The GEC sets of this period are quite nice (though some have valved UHF tuners, pain, no gain) as a thing to fiddle with, or one of the " hand wired " ITT KB's perhaps, which feel a lot older than they actually are.

My top recommendation though would be the BRC (Thorn) 1400 chassis. When new, these were hopless and always going wrong, but they made loads of them (and the single standard 1500 too) and I don't recall and significant LOPT problems, which counts for a lot with a hobby set. The mountains of other faults can be cured at your leisure, at least you can get the bits. They used to do a nice 16 " portable one, which would be a good place to start.

 
Old 12th Jul 2004, 1:10 pm   #8
Paul Stenning
Administrator
 
Paul Stenning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 9,141
Default Re: TV set for a beginner

I believe with the 1500s (and maybe 1400s) that a lot of ills were cured by replacing all the black moulded electrolytics....
__________________

Paul Stenning
Forum Admin/Owner and BVWS Webmaster
Paul Stenning is offline  
Old 12th Jul 2004, 3:25 pm   #9
tvden
Retired Dormant Member
 
tvden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Halesworth, Suffolk, UK.
Posts: 413
Default Re: TV set for a beginner

Hi all many thanks for info I am taking it all in prob my best course would be to advertise for a set on the forum as I admit I dont know a lot about old TVs and would prob buy a dud on ebay I bought a load of old Radio books at a local auction and there were some TV ones among them so I have been studying these, I think a dual standard would be best to start with otherwise I would have to buy a converter straight away I have been advetising for a set locally but no luck so far!!! I live in Suffolk so not many Tvs and Radios arround regards Dennis
tvden is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2004, 10:57 pm   #10
tvden
Retired Dormant Member
 
tvden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Halesworth, Suffolk, UK.
Posts: 413
Default Re: TV set for a beginner

Hi John I am in Suffolk it is a stinker of an area to get radios and tvs so not posible to buy any of your sets, I will go to my local dump and ask them to put any old tvs away for me for suitable payment of course,regards Dennis
tvden is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2004, 10:10 pm   #11
evingar
Octode
 
evingar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Newbury, Berkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,770
Default Re: TV set for a beginner

" as a thing to fiddle with, or one of the " hand wired " ITT KB's perhaps, which feel a lot older than they actually are "

Yes, I agree very " retro " for their time. Fully recommended though I had one to " tinker " with many years ago.

At that time I had excellent service from their support organisation (I think KB brand had been dropped by ITT by that time!) Anyway, the guy moved heaven and earth to supply me with a circuit for the thing, even when it was obvious I was only a " meddling kid " <Grin>


I don’t think you would get a service department doing that kind of thing these days!!

I seem to remember the KB " hand wired " thing was a marketing ploy at a time when valve sets started to get PCB's in them and had heat related reliability probs.


Chris
__________________
Chris
evingar is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2004, 12:13 am   #12
AC/HL
Dekatron
 
AC/HL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 9,663
Default Re: TV set for a beginner

Quote:
Anyway, the guy moved heaven and earth to supply me with a circuit for the thing, even when it was obvious I was only a "meddling kid"
Same thing happened to me, except it was PAM (model long forgotten, but would be 405 in those days)

Last edited by Paul Stenning; 26th Dec 2004 at 12:28 pm.
AC/HL is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2004, 12:19 am   #13
Hybrid tellies
Nonode
 
Hybrid tellies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 1966-1976 Coverack in Cornwall and Helston Cornwall. 1976-present Bristol/Bath area.
Posts: 2,973
Default Re: TV set for a beginner

Hi There
I am bound to be biased towards a pcb set with some valves in with a user name like mine
So I would recommend duel standard sets like the 1400, and any of the Bush Philips or Pye duel standards.
The GEC ones are to be avoided because of the double sided print that they used.
The ITT/KB duel standards were as said before hand wired. They were made from 1964-1971. They did not drop the KB name until 1974 or 75. I have owned one of these sets and repaired many more. Probably one of the best duel standards made but were far from the easiest to repair.
I am unable to comment about 405 line single standard sets, simply because I have not done much work on them. Now single standard 625 line sets, well that another storey
Good luck with your search for a set, don't forget Ebay local papers, second hand shops,and local auction rooms especially those that deal with house clearances. Let us now what you find.
__________________
Simon
BVWS member
Hybrid tellies is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2004, 12:17 pm   #14
AC/HL
Dekatron
 
AC/HL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 9,663
Default Re: TV set for a beginner

Also, keep your eyes open when commuting or just travelling. I often see sets poking out of skips (not radios these days )often in good external condition. Legally I believe they become the skip owner's properety once in it, but as they have to pay to dump it they are hardly going to complain.
AC/HL is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2004, 12:34 pm   #15
evingar
Octode
 
evingar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Newbury, Berkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,770
Default Re: TV set for a beginner

Quote:
Also, keep your eyes open when commuting or just travelling. I often see sets poking out of skips (not radios these days )often in good external condition. Legally I believe they become the skip owner's properety once in it, but as they have to pay to dump it they are hardly going to complain.
A brief word of caution here! I think it is probably OK to " hoik " stuff out of skips in domestic situations, but company’s skips can be a different matter!

A company I used to work for got really " heavy " about this kind of thing. I was told when " arguing " about this seemingly stupid policy that apparently there have been instances where fools that have taken stuff out of the skip with companies consent and maimed themselves with it. They then had the nerve to take the company to court and win! So the company adopted a policy of preventing " stuff” being taken out of the skip.

Because they were " sticklers” for " procedures " , I couldn't even persuade them to turn a blind eye. I even said I was willing to sign a waver ... but by this time a " flicker of irritation " crossed my managers brow <LOL> so I thought it was batter to let the matter rest <g>.

Anyhow, I guess orther companies have this policy and if you enter their premises to " skip dive " without permission, this will probably land you in further hot water as well!
__________________
Chris

Last edited by Paul Stenning; 26th Dec 2004 at 12:29 pm.
evingar is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2004, 1:05 pm   #16
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 28,456
Default Re: TV set for a beginner

Some private individuals don't like skip diving either, for no obvious reason. If the skip is outside somebody's house it's always better to knock on the door and ask permission to take stuff.

Best regards, Paul
paulsherwin is online now  
Old 18th Jul 2004, 5:47 pm   #17
tvden
Retired Dormant Member
 
tvden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Halesworth, Suffolk, UK.
Posts: 413
Default Re: TV set for a beginner

Hi again many thanks for all the advice, I havent been in any skips for about a week, : : to be honest I threw caution to the wind as I saw a couple of Murphys advertised by the same seller on Ebay a portable v230 and a table top v310 as they were in my area, well about an hours drive !!! I decided to bid and won both of them, then wondered what the hell I had let myself infor , a fool and his money are soon parted came to mind, anyway I have been and picked them up this morning, as things turned out my worries were groundless, I asked the guy if he knew anything about teles, expecting him to say no but it turned out he was a fellow forum member (Danny) and knew a great deal about teles, he even sorted me out with a isolating transformer as I did not have one, and an offer of a copy manual , I have now to buy caps and replace all the waxys before applying any power if I get stuck he has offered to help insofar as I can take the set to him, and he has lots of spares as well, so for me a really good deal that will ease me in to the world of old teles regards Den
tvden is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2004, 12:45 pm   #18
Studio263
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: TV set for a beginner

The V310 is a funny one, the line output stage is odd and as a result is " picky " about valves. The line output valve is nominally a 30P4 but you have to get one of the " MR " (Murphy Radio) stamped ones if you want it to work properly.

Start looking!
 
Old 2nd Aug 2004, 12:31 am   #19
Danny
Heptode
 
Danny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North Walsham, Norfolk, UK.
Posts: 516
Default Re: TV set for a beginner

How are you getting on with your sets i have found the
manual so if you want to borrow it send me a message
and ill get it to you.
but let us know how you get on.
thanks Danny
Danny is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2004, 6:31 pm   #20
tvden
Retired Dormant Member
 
tvden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Halesworth, Suffolk, UK.
Posts: 413
Default Re: TV set for a beginner

Hi Danny I have only got as far as getting the chassis out of the murphy V 310 I thought I would wait for the Manual and circuit, also I wanted to order all the replacement caps in one go, I will send you a pm with my email addy I also need to look for a 50s Console set, for my front room, this is the only set that I am to be allowed to have in there, the wife has put her foot down, still seeing as how I have 2 Radiograms and a dozen radios in there already I cant really blame her regards Den
tvden is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:55 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2024, Paul Stenning.