UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Television Standards Converters, Modulators etc

Notices

Television Standards Converters, Modulators etc Standards converters, modulators anything else for providing signals to vintage televisions.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 3rd Sep 2004, 9:12 am   #21
oldeurope
Retired Dormant Member
 
oldeurope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Solingen, Germany
Posts: 727
Default Re: Standards Converter/modulator info wanted

Hi
I am sure Malcolm makes a new (analog?) converter
soon.

But I hope a lot of people will make there analog
converter because it is so easy!

I am happy that digital converters are expensive
and difficult, because it makes people to build
there own analog converter.
This is my fight against the laziness

Kind regards

Darius
oldeurope is offline  
Old 6th Oct 2004, 4:24 am   #22
Mat
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Standards Converter/modulator info wanted

I have a healthy interest for vintage tv receivers and have repaired two that have a line whistle complete with blank raster, this has been the extent of my 405 line viewing for a year or so, i have a modulator cct and pcb that i haven't built yet, also a 405/625 pattern generator.

Having no experience of viewing pictures on a 405 line tv i will try and relate to fellow enthusiasts what i have gathered with a question or two with respect to vintage tv watching!.

1. Does a standards converter allow 625 programme
viewing on a 405 line tv.

2 Does a modulator allow a 405 line tv to display pre-
recorded material albeit converted from 625 lines to
405 lines, and if so who can give this service.

3 If the above is correct,...can i buy a vhs cassette with
programmes of yesteryear readily available in the
shops but would then have to get someone to
convert from 625 to 405 format suitable for playing
through a vhs vtr then through a modulator then to a
405 line tv that then would display audio & video of
this tape.

4 If all this is correct so far! ... then my own wish would
be to show old test card images from the 60's with
accompying music.

5 Using a camcorder or my old Ferguson vhs video- star
camera can i make my own version of tv in the late
50's & early 60's using for example bill & ben or a diy
replica of the BBC'S clock of that time this something
i have always wanted to achieve.

6 Looking at the vintage tv/vtr section of this forum
regular gives me the stimulus to want to try all i have
mentioned so far,... but i feel that to encourage and
increase interest in this hobby greater words should
be spoken not for the few but for the many who might
be waiting just for a simple rendition of what connects
this to that, why you should do this and why you
should not, what you need to get to do this.

7 These are some of my issues that i can see fault with
regarding the use of 405 line tv,... a much clearer
voice needs to be heard a new generation is here
now and i believe with the right kind of instruction
with more said to encourage the beginner, the
electronic enthuisiast, the tv engineer. or the traffic
warden.

8 405 line tv enthusiasts are a small minority that need
to pass on the their experience to a younger audience
so it can survive " all over the uk " .

9 405 patriots can band together and approach one of
many networks to try and arrange a programme
broadcast that can only inject new life into an old
receiver.

10 Lots more interest from people will not reduce the
price of a standards convertor due to the heart of
the electronics needing a small quantity of custom
manufactured components,... but it is not a bridge
too far either.


NB: Any corrections to what i have said are welcome,
i hope whether right or wrong someone may feel
encouraged to go a step further with a wider
publicity than the internet has realised, and that is
the power of Television broadcasting.

Mat.





6
 
Old 6th Oct 2004, 12:28 pm   #23
peter_scott
Dekatron
 
peter_scott's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Edinburgh, UK.
Posts: 3,276
Default Re: Standards Converter/modulator info wanted

Quote:
1. Does a standards converter allow 625 programme
viewing on a 405 line tv.
Yes

Quote:
2 Does a modulator allow a 405 line tv to display pre-
recorded material albeit converted from 625 lines to
405 lines, and if so who can give this service.
Yes

Quote:
3 If the above is correct,...can i buy a vhs cassette with
programmes of yesteryear readily available in the
shops but would then have to get someone to
convert from 625 to 405 format suitable for playing
through a vhs vtr then through a modulator then to a
405 line tv that then would display audio & video of
this tape.
Yes

Quote:
5 Using a camcorder or my old Ferguson vhs video- star
camera can i make my own version of tv in the late
50's & early 60's using for example bill & ben or a diy
replica of the BBC'S clock of that time this something
i have always wanted to achieve.
With a converter you can display any 625 material on your 405 sets.


Mat.

Last edited by Paul Stenning; 29th Dec 2004 at 1:37 pm.
peter_scott is offline  
Old 6th Oct 2004, 5:43 pm   #24
evingar
Octode
 
evingar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Newbury, Berkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,770
Default Re: Standards Converter/modulator info wanted

Quote:
Looking at the vintage tv/vtr section of this forum
regular gives me the stimulus to want to try all i have
mentioned so far,... but i feel that to encourage and
increase interest in this hobby greater words should
be spoken not for the few but for the many who might
be waiting just for a simple rendition of what connects
this to that, why you should do this and why you
should not, what you need to get to do this.
The BVWS has merged with the now defunct 405 Alive magazine (that reached its peak of excellent under stewardship of Andy Emmerson). As a result, the BVWS magazine regularly has articles about 405 Line TV topics that may be of interest to you.

I admire, and share, your enthusiasm for 405 Line TV but to be blunt, your idea of getting someone to re-broadcast a 405 Line service is in my opinion a non-starter! Frankly there is no general demand, and there never will be, for a low-resolution black and white service that, in the age of digital compression, would actually take up quite a lot of bandwidth for what it is!

All this is ignoring the phenomenal technical issues that would have to be overcome at the studio and transmitter to acheive a service. To suggest this course of action to a hard pressed a commercial broadcaster (or even the BBC ) would undoubtedly give the " bean counters " an immediate seizure.
__________________
Chris
evingar is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2004, 3:43 am   #25
Mat
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Standards Converter/modulator info wanted

Never did say that i wanted a 405 tx revived: of course i know this impractable but what i did suggest is that more advertising for 405 tv would be practible many networks are available needing material that can be shown to millliions of people and broadcast in today's format 625 the B.V.W.S needs a kick up the arse.

Mat.
 
Old 10th Oct 2004, 6:04 am   #26
Mat
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Standards Converter/modulator info wanted



The reality is most member's are elderly with no one to replace them. one by one this hobby is having a fast death,... car boot sales are a typical " scenario! " a battered 50's wooden radio to the uninitiated is a find/ silly prices are asked and some buy them.

The phenonen of people paying more money for a copy radio rather than the pay dor the real thing will alway's
 
Old 10th Oct 2004, 8:54 am   #27
peter_scott
Dekatron
 
peter_scott's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Edinburgh, UK.
Posts: 3,276
Default Re: Standards Converter/modulator info wanted

Quote:
... but i feel that to encourage and
increase interest in this hobby greater words should
be spoken not for the few but for the many who might
be waiting just for a simple rendition of what connects
this to that, why you should do this and why you
should not, what you need to get to do this.

7 These are some of my issues that i can see fault with
regarding the use of 405 line tv,... a much clearer
voice needs to be heard a new generation is here
now and i believe with the right kind of instruction
with more said to encourage the beginner, the
electronic enthuisiast, the tv engineer. or the traffic
warden.


Mat.





6
With any reasonably complex technology nobody learns all they need to know from one magic article or even one good book. There is a vast array of books and articles out there and half the fun is discovering the ones that answer your questions. If you can't find the the answers then this forum is about as good as you'll get for a source.

Last edited by Paul Stenning; 29th Dec 2004 at 1:37 pm.
peter_scott is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2004, 8:59 am   #28
evingar
Octode
 
evingar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Newbury, Berkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,770
Default Re: Standards Converter/modulator info wanted

Quote:
the B.V.W.S needs a kick up the arse]
I agree, it would be nice to see more TV articles in the BVWS magazine, but to fair to them; they can only publish what folk submit to them. ............ And I was told by Paul in the " suggestions " section that

" This is primarily a vintage radio forum, with extra smaller sections for other relates interests. "

By extension I guess this also applies to the BVWS as a whole. I don't know what happened to the readership of 405 Alive, I guess it's really a double edged sword, low membership interested in vintage TV - No articles, no articles, no readership etc.


From my personal point of view though I feel the BVWS Bulletin is an excellent read with some first rate articles in it, even if the TV content disappeared completely, I would still undoubtedly continue my membership ......... I may even find the time one day to go to a few events


Chris
__________________
Chris
evingar is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2004, 10:13 am   #29
evingar
Octode
 
evingar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Newbury, Berkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,770
Default Re: Standards Converter/modulator info wanted

Quote:
With any reasonably complex technology nobody learns all they need to know from one magic article or even one good book. There is a vast array of books and articles out there and half the fun is discovering the ones that answer your questions.

Agreed Peter!

Some examples are: -

The Handbook Of Wireless Telegraphy Vol 2
(Wireless Telegraphy Theory (1938)
Published by H.M stationers Office on behalf of the Admiralty

This text gives extremely thorough coverage of valve theory as applied to wireless. Because it is a textbook, it assumes very little prior knowledge.

++++

Electronics Classics
Andy Emmerson
Newnes ISBN 07506 3788 9

Gives good coverage of restoration topics

++++

Colour Television with Particular Reference To The PAL System
G.N Patchett
Norman Price Publishers (1967)

An excellent book from the early days of colour TV in the UK. Because it was " all new " in those days very little prior knowledge is assumed. Especially interesting to those “into” hybrid TV’s

++++

Television Receiver Practice
Roy Holland
Southern Press Limited (1952)

This gives " standard " television " building blocks " of the time and prior to 1952, along with good circuit descriptions and " typical " components.

++++


Of course most of these books are out of print, but can probably be obtained through specialist bookshops or may " pop up " at radio events, car boot sales or on e-bay. The Admiralty book especially seem relatively easy to get hold of. I sold a spare set on e-bay myself a year or so ago.

These are my personal “finds” other equally good texts undoubtedly exist.


Chris
__________________
Chris
evingar is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2004, 7:48 pm   #30
BlowFish
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 157
Default Re: Standards Converter/modulator info wanted

Quote:
There is a vast array of books and articles out there and half the fun is discovering the ones that answer your questions. If you can't find the the answers then this forum is about as good as you'll get for a source.
I agree with Peter: Old text books are a great source of info as well as magazines such as Practical Television (I especially like the ones with the colour pictures on the front cover from the late 50's) and now we have the 'net as well
BlowFish is offline  
Old 11th Oct 2004, 10:47 pm   #31
Mat
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Standards Converter/modulator info wanted

Are 405 enthusiast's really like hen's teeth, where i visualised we numbered hundred's in the U.K surely!... it occurs to me this may not be the case at all... would 1000 be a figure to bandy with?.

If less, then reason's for this should be asked by the few,... my view would be that many 405 enthusiasts are former tv or electronic engineer's who were initiated in the perhaps valve era,... my own self experience is : i never served an apprenticeship in the repair of tv but mostly was self taught albeit i attended college for 3 years City & Guilds 224 and obtained several certificates in electronic servicing, starting from say the earlier hybrid tv set's on to solid state, ceasing repair of all in 2001. ( 405 being the exception)

Some other enthusiast's may have liked electronic's as a hobby learning & making project's in say everyday electronics or other popular magazines some that are still available today, having said that perhaps the giant strides of today's technology has outpaced any interest left regarding 405 or dual standard tv.

405 magazine was excellent and provided everything needed to an audience that was not perhaps their in the first place!.

The B.V.W.S are a thoroughbred organisation for the collection and repair of audio " the lesser invention of video " that followed and accompanies it,.. still surely need's a pat on the back! .

Many young people may have read already about 405 tv but cannot repair one as all do require servicing, on the other hand it is probable that the majority have not,... only seeeking the internet for what is uppermost in the mind's of the young today that is " the present " and all that it entails, a vintage tv as a hobby cannot compete with today's entertainment.

What can be done to try and boost interest is the history of television shown through say the history channel on satellite tv or other's available with contributions from 405 enthusiasts showing their convertor's allowing 625 pictures to display on a 405 tv or the other methods that can be used.

I intend to place in my main library a poster for 405 line tv's with picture, details, and contact number any promising contacts wil be referred to this forum if they have a pc at home,... if not the public library can get people online



If the B.V.W.S needs more articles regarding 405 tv then i may have inadvertantly created one, any B.V.W.S member's reading this may if desired forward my thought's to them, my name and address is available on request.

Mat
 
Old 12th Oct 2004, 2:22 am   #32
Mat
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Standards Converter/modulator info wanted

In my enthusiasm regarding 405 tv only,... i forgot to reply to the suggestion from... other's who followed that a book cannot give magic answer's all that were suggested were excellent sources especially Emmerson's guide to repair and renovation, this copy in my local library is now dog eared by me alone the interests of 405 line tv do not rest apon this book or the many previous that dealt with the fundamental's of valve and electron theory the whole point of my spiel was to not ask where i can learn the basic's of why neutrons atoms ions not in any order behave but to further the cause of 405 line tv, if i needed answers to electron theory hybrid tv, early ctv, the 405 tx demise i would have said so as it happens i started the repair of tv's in 1974 and did well untill i ceased including vtr's in 2001.

Mat.
 
Old 12th Oct 2004, 4:02 pm   #33
tvden
Retired Dormant Member
 
tvden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Halesworth, Suffolk, UK.
Posts: 413
Default Re: Standards Converter/modulator info wanted

Hi all well as the originator of this thread it sure has been long running as for myself I have now bought Malcoms Domino Convertor ok its the easy option but at least as I have bought a working set as well I will be able to get pics straight away just a quick recap ok I used to fiddle with Tvs in the 50s as I could not aford to have them repaired, since then I have now come back into 405 tv via radio in the last 6 months, to be honest I have found it very hard going as I have had to start from scratch ok I can fix a radio but the tv is a lot harder to fix, no wonder we are not getting many new people into the repair of 405 line to be honest I would have given up if it had not been for the extra help I recieved from Danny on this forum lucky for me he is only a hours drive away regards Dennis
tvden is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2004, 9:56 pm   #34
murphymad
Heptode
 
murphymad's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Devizes, Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 655
Default Re: Standards Converter/modulator info wanted

Hi, Mat,

We would welcome any articles that you would like to write for the BVWS Bulletin on the subject of 405 line TV.
I am sure your experiences with repairing old sets would be of great help to others trying to tackle a repair or restoration, or it may just spur someone who had been thinking of, but had never got round to it, to start on an old TV.

Best regards,

Mike...
__________________
Mike Barker.
murphymad is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2004, 12:18 am   #35
Danny
Heptode
 
Danny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North Walsham, Norfolk, UK.
Posts: 516
Default Re: Standards Converter/modulator info wanted

Hi me thinks theres alot more 405ers about this island
and also in other countries! the prices on ebay are going
up and up recently .
but without standards converters then the old tvs would be ornaments only. plus its good to see people trying diffrent methods of conversion . i think also their are lots of people hew can fix their teles .
Im guilty as much as anyone by not sending articles for the bulletin but my spelling isnt up to much and time is sometimes against me (that old work thing) but i will try
to get around to do something soon. i would also like to see a book with all the british sets in but that would be
a task of a lifetime to do.
I do like the bvws bulletins you do get a bit of everything
in them from windups to tranies and telegrath to television.
Danny is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2004, 8:12 am   #36
ppppenguin
Retired Dormant Member
 
ppppenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: North London, UK.
Posts: 6,168
Default Re: Standards Converter/modulator info wanted

Danny

If you've got a good story to tell, the chances are that we'd like to read about in the Bulletin. Repair, restoration, experiences in the TV business etc etc. Spelling is not a great problem, that's partly what editing is for. So long as the meaning is clear the editor can distinguish between " too, to, two " , " there, their, they're " . Some editor's can even fix apostrophe problem's [sic]
ppppenguin is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 6:32 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2024, Paul Stenning.