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Old 12th Jan 2024, 7:56 pm   #21
Sideband
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Default Re: REBUILDING A 1965 FERRANTI T1137 “PYE 11U” SERIES 405-625 line CHASSIS TV

Great sets to work on. I still have one that's been in the family since new and it really is an 11U. It almost got thrown out when my brother moved out of his flat but I rescued it after its slumber of around 25 years and restored it back in 2006. I should switch it on more than I do as it still has its original tube and gives an excellent picture. All paper caps replaced and a few resistors, line and frame pre-sets. I think I've got an RS replacement smoothing cap in the drawer. Mine also had part of the dropper (heater section) O/C and I replaced it with cap so it has a cap dropper for the heaters....cooler running. I think there is a success story somewhere.

As stated, these were real bread and butter sets and there were plenty around when I started in the trade in 1970
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Old 13th Jan 2024, 12:48 am   #22
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Default Re: REBUILDING A 1965 FERRANTI T1137 “PYE 11U” SERIES 405-625 line CHASSIS TV

Reference to post No13. The mains connector on the Invicta set might have been fitted at the request of a TV rental company.
Sets equipped with the Ekco SA8148 VHF tuner gave impressive performance on 405 lines but were disappointing on 625 UHF. In some very early production model 11 sets the output from the UHF tuner was switched direct to the IF amplifier, those were the sets which didn't have the stabilised line timebase.
Nice to see a Ferranti variant of this chassis.

DFWB.
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Old 13th Jan 2024, 9:57 am   #23
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Default Re: REBUILDING A 1965 FERRANTI T1137 “PYE 11U” SERIES 405-625 line CHASSIS TV

Quote:
Originally Posted by FERNSEH View Post
Reference to post No13. The mains connector on the Invicta set might have been fitted at the request of a TV rental company.
Sets equipped with the Ekco SA8148 VHF tuner gave impressive performance on 405 lines but were disappointing on 625 UHF. In some very early production model 11 sets the output from the UHF tuner was switched direct to the IF amplifier, those were the sets which didn't have the stabilised line timebase.
Nice to see a Ferranti variant of this chassis.

DFWB.
I think you're probably correct about the presence of a mains plug and socket on my Invicta 7194U.

If my memory is correct, the earlier Ekco SA8148 VHF turret tuner used a somewhat different circuit to the later AF00056 and AF02022 types and used a different type of channel coils, including the UHF ones.

I'm pretty sure that the first incarnation of the 11U chassis (with an unstabilised line timebase, using a different type of LOPT and an EY86 EHT rectifier) was only fitted in sets made in Pye's Lowestoft factory and dating from 1962.
The RV numbers of this early version were RV168 & RV185. The design was subsequently modified to a stabilised LOP stage, using a DY86 EHT rectifier and different LOPT (RV168B & RV185B).

The first Ekco/Ferranti Southend made 11U chassis sets (Ekco T418 / Ferranti T1093) used the stabilised LOP stage design (RV222 chassis) in 1963.

During the course of 11U chassis production, several different types of VHF tuner were used in individual models:

SA8148, AF00056, AF02022 "Ekco" rotary types

Philips and AT7639 and AT7650 rotary types

Standard Kollsman (USA design) MT4 and MT6 rotary (also used in Thorn 800/850 series sets) types

Plessey 4 pushbutton type.

Last edited by dazzlevision; 13th Jan 2024 at 10:06 am.
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Old 13th Jan 2024, 8:12 pm   #24
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Default Re: REBUILDING A 1965 FERRANTI T1137 “PYE 11U” SERIES 405-625 line CHASSIS TV

More photos
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Old 13th Jan 2024, 9:24 pm   #25
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Default Re: REBUILDING A 1965 FERRANTI T1137 “PYE 11U” SERIES 405-625 line CHASSIS TV

Hi Dazz, What a great write up of your journey with an 11U chassis.

I have a Pye model on the ‘to do ‘ pile , so reading your experiences here is very interesting.

Regarding Egen, then yes, Egen was set up by a few Ekco directors I believe. The ‘E’ being for Eric, and the other initials made up of the other directors names. I have that information somewhere, will try and find it!

Cheers. SimonT.
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Old 13th Jan 2024, 10:06 pm   #26
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Default Re: REBUILDING A 1965 FERRANTI T1137 “PYE 11U” SERIES 405-625 line CHASSIS TV

Hi Dazzelvision,
is the CRT in your Ferranti T1137 a Mullard AW47-91 or the Cathodean equivalent and fitted with the Fenbridge cap for implosion protection.
Many Ekco and Ferranti sets with the Pye 11 chassis employed the twin-panel CME1906. In 1964 certain Pye sets were equipped with the Mullard A47-11W reinforced faceplate tube.
At the time Pye introduced the model 11 in1962 Ekco and Ferranti dual-standard models still had the companies' second chassis which has a similar appearance to the model 11. Quite rare sets now. A few second generation Ekco dual-standard sets were marketed by Alba.

DFWB.
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Old 13th Jan 2024, 10:25 pm   #27
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Default Re: REBUILDING A 1965 FERRANTI T1137 “PYE 11U” SERIES 405-625 line CHASSIS TV

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Originally Posted by FERNSEH View Post
Hi Dazzelvision,
Is the CRT in your Ferranti T1137 a Mullard AW47-91 or the Cathodean equivalent and fitted with the Fenbridge cap for implosion protection.

Many Ekco and Ferranti sets with the Pye 11 chassis employed the twin-panel CME1906.

In 1964 certain Pye sets were equipped with the Mullard A47-11W reinforced faceplate tube.

At the time Pye introduced the model 11 in1962 Ekco and Ferranti dual-standard models still had the companies' second chassis which has a similar appearance to the model 11. Quite rare sets now.

A few second generation Ekco dual-standard sets were marketed by Alba.

DFWB.
The CRT in my Ferranti T1137 is a Cathodeon A47-14W and is the original, fitted with a Fenbridge implosion guard. Cathodeon was a Pye company.

I have an Ekco T407F, which uses the final Ekco designed dual standard chassis. I did notice in the relevant Radio & TV Servicing "red" books that early dual standard Alba sets used Ekco chassis.
You can see from the layout of this chassis (used in later production Ekco T402 and up to T417 models), that the 11U chassis design had strong similarities to it - especially when considering the very different design of the first Pye dual standard chassis (e.g. model V700D and TV1).
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Old 13th Jan 2024, 10:38 pm   #28
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Default Re: REBUILDING A 1965 FERRANTI T1137 “PYE 11U” SERIES 405-625 line CHASSIS TV

Quote:
Originally Posted by thermionic View Post
Hi Dazz, What a great write up of your journey with an 11U chassis.

Regarding Egen, then yes, Egen was set up by a few Ekco directors I believe. The ‘E’ being for Eric, and the other initials made up of the other directors names. I have that information somewhere, will try and find it!

Cheers. SimonT.

Hello Simon,

I'd be very interested to learn more about the establishment of Egen Electric Ltd. I hope you can locate the relevant information.

Here's what I have discovered over the years:

Egen Electric Ltd. A company set up in 1946 by E K Cole Ltd (Ekco) and based in Charfleet Industrial Estate, Canvey Island, Essex.
In 1946, the works manager was Mr H G Cutler, later general manager – in 1958.
In 1950, they were at Craven Avenue, Canvey island, Essex.

Amongst other things, Egen made variable resistors, the car radio type of aerial plug and the Belling-Lee type – also aerial isolators for “live chassis” TV sets.

After the Pye-Ekco merger in 1960, Egen continued its operations, then Philips ownership/control from 1967 – finally CEI (Cambridge Electronic Industries) in the 1980s.

In 1972, they became the UK agent for Beyschlag GmbH, West Germany – maker of carbon and metal film resistors (Beyschlag was a Philips subsidiary).

Now defunct?
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Old 13th Jan 2024, 10:43 pm   #29
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Default Re: REBUILDING A 1965 FERRANTI T1137 “PYE 11U” SERIES 405-625 line CHASSIS TV

Here's what can happen when the 270kOhm preset contrast control reduces in value and overheats (this is an early 11U chassis, with the single preset contrast control and PCF80 2nd vision IF stage).
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Old 13th Jan 2024, 10:48 pm   #30
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Default Re: REBUILDING A 1965 FERRANTI T1137 “PYE 11U” SERIES 405-625 line CHASSIS TV

Here's what the 11U chassis piggy-back flywheel line sync PCB looks like )with ECC82 valve), fitted onto the sound output and line timebase PCB.
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Old 15th Jan 2024, 1:12 pm   #31
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Default Re: REBUILDING A 1965 FERRANTI T1137 “PYE 11U” SERIES 405-625 line CHASSIS TV

The set in post #27 is the same as the first TV I was given as a young teenager in the Seventies to play with. The local TV shop's engineer gave me it, I suspect just to get rid of me. I got it going with the help of my Dad, but eventually the LOPT died.

As the 11Us were very old when I started in business I never expected to see another.

However among some TVs I bought ex-rental in the early Eighties was a very smart 20" mono, badged British Relay. Taking the back off revealed an old and crusty 11U chassis, somehow made to work with a modern tuner and square tube. I beleive this was to avoid paying tax on new TVs for rental customers who wanted a 'new' TV - called decontrolled sets. How long the old chassis (unrestored) was expected to work is anybody's guess!
Needless to say I disposed of the chassis and cabinet (sorry!) and kept the virtually new tube.
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Old 15th Jan 2024, 1:32 pm   #32
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Default Re: REBUILDING A 1965 FERRANTI T1137 “PYE 11U” SERIES 405-625 line CHASSIS TV

Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzlevision View Post
Here is a list of what I consider to be "must change" or "highly suspect" components (if still the original factory fitted parts) in the 11U chassis:

C98 1nF 1250V LOP stage tuning, goes leaky (3nF in factory fitted flywheel sync chassis)

R119 270k 1W part line pulse feedback network to triode section of PCL84 (part line oscillator with line output stage) Goes very high value

Note that, in factory fitted flywheel sync chassis:

R119 270k 1W is not fitted

C97 Boost HT reservoir capacitor value is reduced to 50nF

L38 (anti tear-out inductor = anti ragging choke) and R118 (100 Ohm) are not fitted

In addition, several other small components and wire links on the sound output and line timebase board (fitted on direct line sync sets) are not fitted.
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Old 15th Jan 2024, 6:05 pm   #33
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Default Re: REBUILDING A 1965 FERRANTI T1137 “PYE 11U” SERIES 405-625 line CHASSIS TV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsh Anorak View Post

However among some TVs I bought ex-rental in the early Eighties was a very smart 20" mono, badged British Relay. Taking the back off revealed an old and crusty 11U chassis, somehow made to work with a modern tuner and square tube. I beleive this was to avoid paying tax on new TVs for rental customers who wanted a 'new' TV - called decontrolled sets. How long the old chassis (unrestored) was expected to work is anybody's guess!
Needless to say I disposed of the chassis and cabinet (sorry!) and kept the virtually new tube.
Relay converted loads of 11U sets like this. They used a new 'front end' which as essentially a relay 'vid box' with a new tube and cabinet. The engineers that did the work got paid a bonus per set done so corners were cut and often a mucky dusty greasy old chassis was found inside with just the basics done to get it working. Rather than the chassis cleaned and overhauled properly.
They didn't have a very long service life they were soon withdrawn and scrapped. Locally Relay piled them up in an open yard for the scrapman and a few 'escaped'. I saw quite a few brought in for repair! The owner was quite crestfallen when you told them it was un-useable!
I have five 11u type sets in my collection Invicta, Pye and Ekco versions. I think this series of sets used every kind of implosion protection over the years from a plate glass screen to Fenbridge guard. Production stopping just before rimband protection 'direct vision' tubes came out.
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Old 18th Jan 2024, 7:26 pm   #34
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Default Re: REBUILDING A 1965 FERRANTI T1137 “PYE 11U” SERIES 405-625 line CHASSIS TV

Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzlevision View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermionic View Post
Hi Dazz, What a great write up of your journey with an 11U chassis.

Regarding Egen, then yes, Egen was set up by a few Ekco directors I believe. The ‘E’ being for Eric, and the other initials made up of the other directors names. I have that information somewhere, will try and find it!

Cheers. SimonT.

Hello Simon,

I'd be very interested to learn more about the establishment of Egen Electric Ltd. I hope you can locate the relevant information.

Here's what I have discovered over the years:

Egen Electric Ltd. A company set up in 1946 by E K Cole Ltd (Ekco) and based in Charfleet Industrial Estate, Canvey Island, Essex.
In 1946, the works manager was Mr H G Cutler, later general manager – in 1958.
In 1950, they were at Craven Avenue, Canvey island, Essex.

Amongst other things, Egen made variable resistors, the car radio type of aerial plug and the Belling-Lee type – also aerial isolators for “live chassis” TV sets.

After the Pye-Ekco merger in 1960, Egen continued its operations, then Philips ownership/control from 1967 – finally CEI (Cambridge Electronic Industries) in the 1980s.

In 1972, they became the UK agent for Beyschlag GmbH, West Germany – maker of carbon and metal film resistors (Beyschlag was a Philips subsidiary).

Now defunct?

Hello Dazz.

I’ve located some information in the book ‘Ekco Sounds’ . EGEN was formed initially by Eric Cole (E), George Allen (G), Ernie Pring (E), and Norman Robertson (N)

“In 1958 the EGEN factory at Canvey Island was extended and modernised to provide a 50% increase in floor space”.


Hope thats of interest.

Cheers.

Simon.
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Old 18th Jan 2024, 9:00 pm   #35
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Default Re: REBUILDING A 1965 FERRANTI T1137 “PYE 11U” SERIES 405-625 line CHASSIS TV

Quote:
Originally Posted by thermionic View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzlevision View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermionic View Post
Regarding Egen, then yes, Egen was set up by a few Ekco directors I believe. The ‘E’ being for Eric, and the other initials made up of the other directors names. I have that information somewhere, will try and find it!

Cheers. SimonT.

Hello Simon,

I'd be very interested to learn more about the establishment of Egen Electric Ltd. I hope you can locate the relevant information.

Hello Dazz.

I’ve located some information in the book ‘Ekco Sounds’ . EGEN was formed initially by Eric Cole (E), George Allen (G), Ernie Pring (E), and Norman Robertson (N)

“In 1958 the EGEN factory at Canvey Island was extended and modernised to provide a 50% increase in floor space”.


Hope thats of interest.

Cheers.

Simon.
Hello Simon,

That's very interesting and thanks for posting it.

Dave
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Old 19th Jan 2024, 10:53 am   #36
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Default Re: REBUILDING A 1965 FERRANTI T1137 “PYE 11U” SERIES 405-625 line CHASSIS TV

When i started in the trade in 1970 we had loads of the Ferranti 1123 version out on rent. Good sets on VHF but poor on UHF. My parents bought a new Ekco T418 in 1963, the pre-set contrast control burnt out after a few months.
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Old 19th Jan 2024, 12:04 pm   #37
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Default Re: REBUILDING A 1965 FERRANTI T1137 “PYE 11U” SERIES 405-625 line CHASSIS TV

Quote:
Originally Posted by MALC SCOTT View Post
My parents bought a new Ekco T418 in 1963, the pre-set contrast control burnt out after a few months.
Yes, an 11U chassis "stock fault".
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Old 19th Jan 2024, 3:54 pm   #38
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Default Re: REBUILDING A 1965 FERRANTI T1137 “PYE 11U” SERIES 405-625 line CHASSIS TV

Quote:
Originally Posted by MALC SCOTT View Post
When i started in the trade in 1970 we had loads of the Ferranti 1123 version out on rent. Good sets on VHF but poor on UHF. My parents bought a new Ekco T418 in 1963, the pre-set contrast control burnt out after a few months.
Early versions of the Pye model 11 were hopeless on UHF. In models fitted with the MT3 tuner the output from the UHF tuner went direct to the IF amplifier.
I believe an IF pre-amplifier was available from the service department.
The second attachment shows the flywheel sync unit used in the Pye 11 chassis. The design of the circuit looks like a legacy from pre-1962 Ekco and Ferranti TV sets.

DFWB.
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Old 19th Jan 2024, 5:18 pm   #39
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Default Re: REBUILDING A 1965 FERRANTI T1137 “PYE 11U” SERIES 405-625 line CHASSIS TV

Quote:
Originally Posted by FERNSEH View Post
I believe an IF pre-amplifier was available from the service department.

The second attachment shows the flywheel sync unit used in the Pye 11 chassis. The design of the circuit looks like a legacy from pre-1962 Ekco and Ferranti TV sets.
DFWB.
I've never seen a reference to an IF preamplifier for the 11U series, but mention was made in the 625 supplement for the Pye V700D chassis and I believe I have one.

There were at least three different flywheel sync panels used in the 11U chassis - depending upon whether the set was made in Lowestoft or Southend.
One used a tuned cathode multivibrator circuit for the ECC82 and was probably derived from an earlier Pye design. As has been said, Ekco favoured the blocking oscillator circuit that they had used for several years in their flywheel sync models.
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Old 21st Jan 2024, 12:12 pm   #40
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Default Re: REBUILDING A 1965 FERRANTI T1137 “PYE 11U” SERIES 405-625 line CHASSIS TV

Quote:
Originally Posted by FERNSEH View Post

The second attachment shows the flywheel sync unit used in the Pye 11 chassis. The design of the circuit looks like a legacy from pre-1962 Ekco and Ferranti TV sets.

DFWB.
Here's the early flywheel sync panel circuit used in earlier Pye Lowestoft made 11U chassis.
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