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Old 1st May 2020, 7:56 pm   #1421
samjmann
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Occasionally I get asked about the things such as those above, and like people here, my eyes go heavenwards. However with all the HF on the mains at the moment I've wondered if a mains conditioner may provide better filtering of non-sinusoidal mains. Some people complain that the mains transformers hum on power amplifiers.
When used in a different location, it stops. They claim that this isn't down to what the unit is sitting on, or load conditions etc, but that there is a small amount DC on the incoming mains.

I can't believe for one minute that this will improve the sound any, but the noise from the transformer body did make me wonder.

Any thoughts anyone?

Regards, SJM.
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Old 1st May 2020, 9:16 pm   #1422
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

The distortion of the mains waveform add to the noise from winding clatter, core magnetostriction etc. I'm not sure any filtering without huge inductors and capacitors would smooth the overall waveform an help with buzz/hum. Bur high frequency components on the mains from ringing when switches go on/off are the well known fridge clicks.

Filtering the mains to remove HF grot is, to me. just good practice.\\My power amp had noisy toroidal transformers. Three rides in the vac impregnation line didn't help enough. In the end, I made moulds and potted them.

David
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Old 2nd May 2020, 12:45 am   #1423
Craig Sawyers
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

The problem is not DC on the mains as such. It is even order distortion which produces a net DC. I have a small passive circuit that I occasionally use to measure this directly, and most of the time the effective DC offset where I live is a few tens of mV, so not worth worrying about.

But when we lived in St Neots (the Cambridgeshire one) toroid buzz was a major headache.

Craig
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Old 2nd May 2020, 12:52 am   #1424
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Yes indeed, torroid hum (on audio amps) from DC on the mains is a problem here in a rural area due I guess to being on the end of a long power feed which visits several places on its way to us.

Steve.

PS It's just occurred to me that we are not discussing phoolery here... Let's get back on topic quick!
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Last edited by fetteler; 2nd May 2020 at 12:55 am. Reason: PS
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Old 2nd May 2020, 12:10 pm   #1425
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Thanks for the replies, confirmed what I had wondered. There are conditioners ranging from what looks like a 'wall-wart' up to something costing £1950.00!!! I think I know what to say now. Still if anyone persists I could always advise then to take a dose of 'Andrews'....
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Old 2nd May 2020, 1:12 pm   #1426
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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Originally Posted by samjmann View Post
Thanks for the replies, confirmed what I had wondered. There are conditioners ranging from what looks like a 'wall-wart' up to something costing £1950.00!!! I think I know what to say now. Still if anyone persists I could always advise then to take a dose of 'Andrews'....
A year or two ago someone posted about this mains conditioner. It generally got favourable reviews from guys on here - that says something! I bought two myself and have been very pleased with them:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Product...YaAo4CEALw_wcB
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Old 2nd May 2020, 1:15 pm   #1427
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler View Post
The answers can be found across the advertisements and reviews of a variety of wondercables.

They explain that the cables have calming influence on unruly electrons coming in from the outside world. Energy flows are smoothed. I'm not sure what that means in terms of Volts and Amps and Hertz and Fouriers, but so many reviewers just can't be wrong.

What's more those electrons in their calmed state are schooled, it is trained into them that when they later get used in the amplifier proper, they must work their little hearts out to find something called soundstaging and to stretch it. Any bass they find must be given more pace and rhythm. The little devils are re-writing your music.

This means that once you fit a miracle-working mains cable to your power amp, the quality of your record deck, preamp and even their cables becomes irrelevant. The beautifully powered power amp will sort it all out.

£16,500? Cheap at twice the price.

David
But, but, but ... the electrons travelling through your mains cable aren't the same ones that actually power the amplifier as the power supply magnetics are in the way, so uncouth, unschooled electrons will be just fine on the primary side. Presumably a reputable manufacturer would unsure that all of the secondary side electrons have received the finest education.

I can't believe I'm arguing this

John
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Old 2nd May 2020, 2:12 pm   #1428
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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Originally Posted by stevehertz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by samjmann View Post
Thanks for the replies, confirmed what I had wondered. There are conditioners ranging from what looks like a 'wall-wart' up to something costing £1950.00!!! I think I know what to say now. Still if anyone persists I could always advise then to take a dose of 'Andrews'....
A year or two ago someone posted about this mains conditioner. It generally got favourable reviews from guys on here - that says something! I bought two myself and have been very pleased with them:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Product...YaAo4CEALw_wcB
TLC are a fine company, mainly supplying the professional market. What is in a socket strip like that is what is called Type 3 protection, and although will cope with mild surge energies, you really need a Type 2 at the consumer unit to absorb the majority of the surge energy.

Type 2's use really chunky MOV's, usually L/N and N/E (so they also do L/E) capable of 40kA surges. They always have a failure indicator for when a MOV is failing, either passive or a pair of contacts you can plumb into an LED or acoustic sounder. And you can hot swap the MOV cartridge, that plugs in to the unit. Types are available to fit in a consumer unit, either 1 wide for just L/N or two wide for L/N and N/E. If you are going to have this sort of thing done, do not buy a cheap Chinese one - decent ones cost about £80 - £120.

If you have overhead power to your property that can be struck by lightning, you also need a Type 1, which is a spark gap.

Craig
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Old 2nd May 2020, 2:12 pm   #1429
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

The TLC conditioner, I love the "on display" common mode choke. No I am not going to get one.
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Old 2nd May 2020, 2:34 pm   #1430
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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But, but, but ... the electrons travelling through your mains cable aren't the same ones that actually power the amplifier as the power supply magnetics are in the way, so uncouth, unschooled electrons will be just fine on the primary side. Presumably a reputable manufacturer would unsure that all of the secondary side electrons have received the finest education.
Unfortunately the primary side electrons and the secondary side ones have been brought into enough proximity for magnetic field transfer to be effected between them - that's how a transformer works. But unfortunately magnetic influence isn't the only thing to transfer. Bolshons are the carrier particles of the physical property of Bolshiness and their influence will make the secondary electrons quite unruly.

Scientists haven't managed to find the Bolshon yet, they're trying to get time on the big basher at CERN, but skilled listeners have definitely heard them. They have determined that the Bolshon makes up only one ten-to-the-minus21 of the electron mass, but they constitute 100% of its grievence.

Other carrier particles convey strangeness, charm and smugness.

David
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Old 2nd May 2020, 2:43 pm   #1431
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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The TLC conditioner, I love the "on display" common mode choke.
There is such an epidemic of power supplies and things where common-mode chokes are not present and linked out, that I can understand a reputable firm wanting to shout "Look! there really is one here!"

The TLC price is right. Any less than that and corners have to have been cut. Any more than that and someone is being taken for a ta-ta.

David
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Old 2nd May 2020, 5:11 pm   #1432
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

I "won" a large Shaffner mains filter about the size of a brick, put it on my workshop mains feed. You never know I might want to measure (oops wrong word for this thread) something small.
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Old 2nd May 2020, 6:21 pm   #1433
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Does the Schaffner filter have a "RIFA INSIDE!" sticker?

If not actual Rifa, they have something fully comparable inside, right down to the funeral with a burning boat.
When they let loose they burn a hole through the can.

David
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Old 2nd May 2020, 8:42 pm   #1434
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

On the subject of mains leads I just happened across this little gem. It is quote: The EVO3 Initium is IsoTek’s new entry level power cable designed to offer high quality performance at an extremely fair price. Initium is a must for replacing all of your free standard black plastic power leads which have been designed down to a price not up to a quality.

Blimey, if £90 is what they call an "extremely fair price" for a mains lead, then no wonder there's ones for sale at £16K.

https://www.futureshop.co.uk/isotek-...AaAta0EALw_wcB
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Old 2nd May 2020, 9:42 pm   #1435
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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Blimey, if £90 is what they call an "extremely fair price" for a mains lead, then no wonder there's ones for sale at £16K.
It costs £90 because it's got the magical '99.9999% OFC conductors'. There's magic in them there 9s.
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Old 2nd May 2020, 10:38 pm   #1436
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Nope!

That doesn't impress me. Even the £16500 one is in the could try harder category. Any audiophile who wants to properly power his amp or whatever, needs to think three phase. Single phase is just piddling around. With three phases and push-pull transformers there are six charging pulses per cycle. Ripple frequencies go up and ripple amplitudes go down. Superlatively smooth to start with. THEN he can start throwing expensive cable at it.

The business of getting a three phase feed to a house will make it exclusive and keep the hoi polloi out. Exclusivity helps the sound greatly.

David
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Old 2nd May 2020, 11:45 pm   #1437
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

I use a single phase to three phase converter to run my Wadkin radial arm saw. Does that count?
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Old 3rd May 2020, 12:16 am   #1438
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

You'll be missing out on that really satisfying sound a motor on a normal 3 phase supply makes on start up. Rotary converters are just a bit too soft, and as for solid state inverters, they do soft-start. Even star-delta is for wusses. Real men go DOL . The shower of sparks from a contactor is an essential part of the performance, like tyre smoke on Top Gear.

David
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Old 3rd May 2020, 1:19 am   #1439
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Do you mean real men or red necks?

All that top gear stuff reeks of testosterone....

Steve.
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Old 3rd May 2020, 2:05 am   #1440
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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You'll be missing out on that really satisfying sound a motor on a normal 3 phase supply makes on start up.

David
My god, I love that 'grunting' sound! Never get a chance to hear it these days. Often wondered what causes it...

Mike
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