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Old 20th Apr 2019, 12:00 am   #721
m0cemdave
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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"Cables" meaning..
NO !
not cables...
INTERCONNECTS
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 12:19 am   #722
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...That was an idea which makes extreme audiophoolia look entirely reasonable...
GJ
For anyone who hasn't seen it before, I recommend Anthony Zuppero's memoir, available online as a pdf.
http://www.neofuel.com/inhabit/inhabit.pdf
It's quite a long read, but is a magnificent (and, worryingly, true) tale of real mad boffins.
GJ's comment above doesn't even come close....
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 5:28 pm   #723
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All of which brings us back to wind-up gramophones and 78s, assuming at least one intact eardrum.
Yes!! If one plays ancient acoustically recorded 78s on a wind up gramphone. then there are no nasty electrons to cause problems. Direct cut records too!

Pure unadulterated sound.
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 6:11 pm   #724
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then there are no nasty electrons to cause problems
Half the charge of atoms (neutral ones) are electrons, so ordinary stuff is half bad to start with.
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 6:31 pm   #725
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

I wonder if the "audiophiles" have threads about "radiophools"?!
Rob
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 6:45 pm   #726
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Might be worth a quick google, but I think they just try to ignore us.

David
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 7:04 pm   #727
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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I wonder if the "audiophiles" have threads about "radiophools"?!
Rob
Not really, in my experience. Outside their own field they're pretty much a 'live and let live' lot. Some of them are convinced that most of the rest of the world must be deaf. There's an overlapping group which lumps 'measurists' in with tailors who say "Never mind the quality, feel the width" and also with those uber-wealthy art buyers who value Van Goghs on their physical size (this was the case for a while among some middle-Eastern and far-Eastern buyers, apparently).

Cheers,

GJ
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Old 21st Apr 2019, 7:37 pm   #728
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC/HL View Post
All of which brings us back to wind-up gramophones and 78s, assuming at least one intact eardrum.
Yes!! If one plays ancient acoustically recorded 78s on a wind up gramphone. then there are no nasty electrons to cause problems. Direct cut records too!

Pure unadulterated sound.
As a matter of fact, if you play a good acoustic 78 on an EMG or similar, you can get results which seem startlingly real, at least on voice. Never mind that the whole process is a series of resonances, both on recording and reproduction - the Gaisbergs and others pushed the system to its limits by careful selection of recording diaphragms and horn arrangements, and could achieve remarkable results.
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Old 21st Apr 2019, 8:47 pm   #729
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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I wonder if the "audiophiles" have threads about "radiophools"?!
Some of them refer to people like us as 'conventional engineers'; they believe that we never actually listen to audio equipment we are designing/debugging but just use test gear to measure THD (which they claim is the only figure we are interested in). They feel sorry for us, because they believe we are too deaf/poor/stupid to appreciate the 'high-end' equipment they have.
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Old 21st Apr 2019, 8:55 pm   #730
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The reference to William Thomson, Lord Kelvin, was not entirely random.

In order to prevent the disturbing sound of His Lordship turning in his grave, we should remember one of his best-known assertions: “When you can measure what you are speaking about and express it in numbers, you know something."

Audiophiles have to bear in mind that it's this fundamental scientific maxim that's followed by the designers of the recording studio kit that generates the source material for their hobby.
You might think that studio kit is better engineered but modern studio engineers and owners are often less technically aware than they used to be. The cult of using different microphone preamplifiers for different sources is an obvious example - despite a blind test in Sound On Sound magazine a few years ago showing that there is really little difference when they are used in a sensible way. People will spend hundreds (or even thousands) of pounds on an expensive mic preamp and then partner it with a budget Chinese made microphone and use it in an untreated recording space.
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Old 21st Apr 2019, 11:11 pm   #731
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... an untreated recording space.
Yes, you'd think they would be able to hear what the room was doing to the sound, even if they don't know anything about the science of acoustics. Just a bit of basic treatment can make a big difference.

The same applies to the audiophools - for what some of them spend on snake oil, they could have a fully treated room and be amazed at how good a system can sound.

I wish I could have kept this one, and transferred it to my house (and just for fun James, try dating it from the equipment fit):
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Old 21st Apr 2019, 11:48 pm   #732
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

1985/6?
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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 8:27 am   #733
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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Originally Posted by G8HQP Dave View Post
Some of them refer to people like us as 'conventional engineers'; they believe that we never actually listen to audio equipment we are designing/debugging but just use test gear to measure THD (which they claim is the only figure we are interested in). They feel sorry for us, because they believe we are too deaf/poor/stupid to appreciate the 'high-end' equipment they have.
30-odd years ago, an old university friend of mine went to work for Quad across in Huntindgon. He arranged for me to go visit one day, and I spent a cheerful couple of hours having a tour and chatting to the late great Mike Albinson.

Turns out they never listened to their designs, at all. They designed them as engineers according to hard electronics and acoustics principles, tested them using the usual raft of gear, production engineered them and sold tens of thousands.

And Mike had zero interest in Audio, in spite of being the designer of many of Quad's iconic products. His hobby was restoring and riding old motor bikes!

Their PCB design was a joy to behold. Mike taped it up at x4, and stuck it onto the end of a Dexion rack, under a skylight and facing the toilet door. In a hole in that door was a camera lens. Once inside the toilet, the photoresist board was taped to the wall, and the lens cap was taken off. After drinking his coffee, he would develop and etch the board and drill holes in it.

Once the layout worked to everyone's satisfaction and circuit measurement, and they were heading towards production, the final x4 layout was sent to the board manufacturer.

And that is the reason that all the older Quad gear (33/303/FM3 etc) were all single sided boards. Double sided technology certainly existed, but Mike's layout technique only gave rise to single sided boards.

Craig
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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 9:01 am   #734
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Try explaining a lens through a toilet door nowadays!

I had the luxury version. Taped up my layouts at 2:1 on mylar sheets with index pegs on a drawing-table sized lightbox.

David
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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 9:06 am   #735
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Forgive me, but is that ad for pebbles actually real? Not a p-take? I know Audiophools will believe almost anything, but pebbles? And the comments - are they also genuine, as some of them seem totally deranged!
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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 9:10 am   #736
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Oh it's real. If you want a more high-tech version you could go for Shakti stones http://www.shakti-innovations.com/product/shakti-stone/. These make your car run better too.

Cheers,

GJ
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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 9:57 am   #737
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Oh I need me some of those, one of ours is running a bit wooly and rich at the moment... Oh, or then again I could spend a tenth of the money on a new CTS & IATS and have the same effect

They do look nice though, great paired with these http://www.shakti-innovations.com/product/hallograph/ if you can run to a couple of grand. (Worth it for the reduction in chaotic reflections?)
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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 10:53 am   #738
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http://www.shakti-innovations.com/product/hallograph/ if you can run to a couple of grand. (Worth it for the reduction in chaotic reflections?)
Amazing. Acousto-quackery at its finest!

Control of early reflections does have a major influence on the sound in a listening room, but there are proper scientific methods of dealing with the problem.
You can go the whole hog and build a shell with angled sides and a rear wall full of diffusors, as in my picture above.
But in a typical living room or similar, some carefully positioned absorption on the side walls can effect a surprisingly large improvement, and at very low cost.

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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 11:05 am   #739
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

For those prices you could go the whole hog and have a live-in witch-doctor for a year.

The chanting would get on my nerves, so this isn't the approach for me.

David
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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 11:12 am   #740
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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Oh it's real. If you want a more high-tech version you could go for Shakti stones http://www.shakti-innovations.com/product/shakti-stone/.
Certainly 'real' in the sense that a website exists just like Machina Dynamica (pebbles). None of which proves that such sites are anything other than complete fabrications based on having a laugh after a good night out. The last customer review of the Machina Dynamica pebbles may say it all. By the way, shakti is a Hindu word usually meaning 'divine power'. Maybe that's a clue.

Perhaps one of us should try ordering one of these products? On reflection, perhaps not!

Alan
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