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Old 13th Jun 2022, 4:25 pm   #2801
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

I don't know if I am missing something, but on clicking the link at #2783 and scrolling down to find the earth-pin-only UK 13A plug, I see that to the left of it are French and German (Schuko) free sockets, not plugs, which are therefore the wrong sex to be plugged into their respective mains sockets

Last edited by emeritus; 13th Jun 2022 at 4:29 pm. Reason: typos
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Old 13th Jun 2022, 4:38 pm   #2802
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

that's right. the schuko socket in the wall has the male earth pin
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Old 13th Jun 2022, 5:38 pm   #2803
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

But are the best Schuko's more or less musical than the best BS1363? or NEMA?

Before going to all that tedious work of optimising things, it might help to start with the better system.

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Old 13th Jun 2022, 9:30 pm   #2804
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Difference between a UK system and a European one is that a typical UK house has 2 ring mains, 30amp, upstairs and downstairs, whereas a typical European house will have at least 20 separate 10amp circuits, some divided by appliance (fridge, dishwasher, etc), and generally divided by room. I guess one must be better then the other for propagating noise along cables.
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Old 13th Jun 2022, 10:36 pm   #2805
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

True enough. I recall sorting out a wiring problrm in my late brother-in-law's house in France: three floors and two fuse boards, all circuits with double-pole fusing for each circuit.

Many years ago my late mother was concerned about the way the TV picture momentarily collapsed every time she started the motor of her Singer sewing machine that was plugged into the same ring main circuit (this was before TVs had regulated power supplies). I tried running the sewing machine from the 13A socket of the 30A-fused kitchen cooker point via an extension lead, and that did completely fix the problem.

.PS in my earlier post I was referring to the extreme left hznd (French?) socket. The centre connector looks like a Schuko with no pins but just the pair of earth strip contacts present. Perhsps it is not a French plug at all but some other type of earthed plug.

Last edited by emeritus; 13th Jun 2022 at 10:44 pm. Reason: typos
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Old 14th Jun 2022, 6:34 am   #2806
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

The left one is Japanese I think ...
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Old 14th Jun 2022, 8:37 am   #2807
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Quote:
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Difference between a UK system and a European one is that a typical UK house has 2 ring mains, 30amp, upstairs and downstairs, whereas a typical European house will have at least 20 separate 10amp circuits, some divided by appliance (fridge, dishwasher, etc), and generally divided by room. I guess one must be better then the other for propagating noise along cables.
Australia has something similar. As many "drops " as required per 16 Amp circuit breaker for power points, as long as there are only 8 points on a "drop ".
A single 12 amp beaker for lighting. ONE circuit for the whole house.
Electric stoves generally have two phases, one for the oven and grill, one for the three or four hotplates. These two "phases " are actaully the same phase, but on separate breakers, 32 amps is normal, per leg, and wiring is 4mm sq.
Power points are 2.5mm sq.
Lighting is 1.5mm sq.
The above is for a single phase power supply. My current house has three phase supply, and has fuses, NOT circuit breakers. NOR does it have an ELCB in sight.
BUT it has the same wiring rules as above. I ripped out the electric stove and fitted LPG gas stove, and cut my power bill by 1/2.
Electric hot water, and energy saving lighting.

Joe
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Old 14th Jun 2022, 11:30 am   #2808
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

The danger is that if the audiophools decide that the mains in Australia, Japan, or better yet, somewhere really esoteric, is sonically superior to that in the UK and US, then all of them will try to move there. The cost won't be so bad for them compared to what they already spend. Their favourite shops would have to open new branches. All it takes is one of their accepted gurus to visit on holiday and write a small article on how nice the mains is and you could suffer an influx of people who would make your brain hurt.

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Old 14th Jun 2022, 1:29 pm   #2809
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

The Japanese are already there, big time https://www.furutech.com/

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Old 14th Jun 2022, 1:54 pm   #2810
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Just to sort out the mains plug confusion. OT I suppose but this thread cannot be left wanting for accuracy and fidelity.
In the link in #2783 there are pics of three plugs robbed of their line and neutral pins.

Left is the USA standard 120V 15A plug, NEMA 5-15.
Middle is the 230V 16A CEE7/7 'hybrid' European plug which fits both Schuko CEE7/3 and French CEE7/5 sockets, although each of those types has a corresponding plug that does not fit the other type. In a Schuko socket the CEE7/7 uses its side contacts for earth (Schuko does not have a pin in the socket) but in French sockets its female contact mates with the pin protuding from the socket. Thus this plug can replace both CEE7/4 and CEE7/6 plugs. There is no corresponding socket that uses both forms of earth contact.

The plug on the right is a horrible invention used in the UK and a few other countries, that introduces unnecessary extra contact surfaces and resistance by the incorporation of a fuse. The reason for the fuse, as mentioned above, is to allow the use of a smaller number of higher-rated circuits in the building wiring, the OCPD of which (typically 32A) would not protect the plug or flex. No. Wait. The reason for the fuse is apparently to allow the sound-stage to be optimised by selection of the appropriate type of fuse to balance out undesirable characteristics in the system. I learned something today.

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Old 14th Jun 2022, 4:51 pm   #2811
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Hi all,
Following on from my comment re audiophile ethernet switchers/routers in post #2865, I see in one of the current HiFi magazines a 10 way "Hi end network switch" for £5000!
Someone will obviously buy it and swear blind it makes things "better" whatever that is.
The mind boggles.

John
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Old 14th Jun 2022, 5:49 pm   #2812
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Quote:
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...
The plug on the right is a horrible invention used in the UK and a few other countries, that introduces unnecessary extra contact surfaces and resistance by the incorporation of a fuse. ....
I am of the opinion that the UK system was devised to prevent fires (hot wires fanned in the attic), but the continental system was devised to prevent loss of life (minimise current in the circuit). Saying that, though, it is not manadatory to have an earth connection in a traditional wooden Swedish house, there can be two phases and two different control panel fuses in the same outlet (as I found out to my cost), and some people have real candles on the Christmas tree ...
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Old 16th Jun 2022, 5:32 pm   #2813
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Does this qualify as audiophoolery?
https://retrogearshop.com/collection...86-tube-spares

$280K

The meters are still made and you can get them with the Fairchild logo. The only parts I can think of that are unobtainable are the transformers. However, if you waited long enough, you could probably find them over a period of years. Were you really cynical, you could easily make the cans and fit Sowter's clones inside (electrically correct). If you potted them, who would know?

The knobs are also made as replicas, but they aren't perfectly identical. The knobs and TFs are the only parts I would have serious hassle finding. Not that I'm saying it's a fake. It's most likely an original minus any patina. Where's the studio history? Even if it came from a small-time studio, for something that costly, you'd usually have a little story about some back street facility buying it in 1959, right?

And it doesn't have RCA valves...it has JJ replicas!!!

Tim de P made his take on the 660 / 670 in the eighties. He wisely realised that some of the valves and interstage transformers weren't in the path, so you could keep the path valve and make the sidechain electrically identical, but using silicon. Even his clones are now collectors' items.
You will all be pleased to know that the price for this item's now been reduced to $209,000 USD. A bargain if ever there were one.

(and I do think that a pro broadcast limiter belongs in this thread, as there have been tens of 670 clones over the years. You could probably get Tim d P's one for less than a 1/10th of this one and no one would ever hear otherwise)
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Old 18th Jun 2022, 12:41 pm   #2814
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Anyone out there still using magnetic resistors? https://www.hificollective.co.uk/com...resistors.html. Niobium is used for creating super-conductive alloys which doesn't sound too resistor like to me.
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Old 19th Jun 2022, 6:39 pm   #2815
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardgr View Post
Difference between a UK system and a European one is that a typical UK house has 2 ring mains, 30amp, upstairs and downstairs, whereas a typical European house will have at least 20 separate 10amp circuits, some divided by appliance (fridge, dishwasher, etc), and generally divided by room. I guess one must be better then the other for propagating noise along cables.
Up to 10 circuits of 16A each for the average Dutch home.
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Old 19th Jun 2022, 10:42 pm   #2816
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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Anyone out there still using magnetic resistors? https://www.hificollective.co.uk/com...resistors.html. Niobium is used for creating super-conductive alloys which doesn't sound too resistor like to me.
A strong warning is appropriate here, maybe as strong as a full Achtung!

These resistors are offered to lure audiophiles into something far more expensive. There is no point swapping all the resistors in an amplifier to non-magnetic types unless the transformers and inductors are also changed to special non-magnetic ones. Only after getting the non-mag resistors fitted is the owner told. and then the next step is to reveal that the anodes and structural metal in normal valves is nickel... and thay nickel is, shock! horror! ferromagnetic. Special valves are needed with graphite anodes.

David
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Old 20th Jun 2022, 1:17 am   #2817
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Of course when you are looking for the Nirvana in audio reproduction equipment, you expect you equipment to have resistors that only contain ohms. Non magnetic resistors are developed from non inductive resistors I guess.

If anyone wants some non magnetic resistors I've some fully burnt in ones, certified free from any magnetic materials, and stuffed full of non inductive ohms: in fact many have twice as many ohms as marked on the outside so, hey! Good value what?

One thought though, I'd like to see the pundits remove the magnetic components from a moving coil loudspeaker and improve it's sonic wellness.
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Old 20th Jun 2022, 11:46 am   #2818
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

I was going to put a smartass comment about electrostatic loudspeakers when I remembered that most are transformer coupled and/orstill need a mains transformer.

Unfortunately, all the electricity supplied to the audiophool has been magnetically corrupted in both generation and distribution.

There are alternatives. Primary cells are reassuringly expensive and carbon-based. A tankful of electric eels is also non magnetic, and also a carbon-based lifeform. If these don't do it, then poor old Igor has to go up on the battlements and fly the kite again. No wonder he looks rather frazzled. The weather conditions when this works forces the playing of Wagner, typically the Death of Siegfried. But that's not a problem. The phool wants to listen to the equipment, not the music.

David
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Old 20th Jun 2022, 12:27 pm   #2819
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

LIGO (the gravitational wave detector) know a thing or two about measurements at the hairy edge of what is possible.

They did a major study of current noise in resistors, here https://dcc.ligo.org/public/0002/T09...rent_noise.pdf

Nothing audiophool in those measurements!

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Old 20th Jun 2022, 1:28 pm   #2820
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

A very good paper indeed.

Go straight to fig 12 and see the popcorn type noise from thick-film SMT resistors. This effect goes right up to RF frequencies. Thick film parts are dramatically noisier than metal film (thin film) alternatives. I've seen 20dB difference. Carbon resistors are worse still, and carbon comps the worst of all.

The power resistors come out well because of averaging across their larger active volume. 'There's no substitute for cubic inches' as an American racer once said. It applies in many fields.

These low frequency fluctuations show up in the difficulty of choosing good resistors in PLL tuning lines into VCOs. The oscillators are terribly sensitive, people who haven't been bitten go for large values and thermal junction emfs are enough to power trouble

David
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