Mono cartridge for 78rpm

[Arthur2075]

Recently acquired an Audio Technica LP120USB turntable. I have an AT91 cartridge with a 0.3mm tip for 78rpm. (AT95E for LP). I find the AT91tracking at 2.25gms does not track very well and will skip, increasing the tracking weight does improve it. However recommended tracking is 2gms and will not track at all.

Does anyone use a particular mono cartridge for playing 78rpm records? Many years ago I used a Shure M75 with a 78rpm stylus tracking at around 5gms in a Lenco GL75.

Playing 33rpm with the 95E is really good.

It’s connected to my MAC using a Behringer USB souncard. I connect the turntable to the line in on the sound card, using Edifier active speakers.this sounds nicer than the using the USB from the turntable.

[Edward Huggins]

Tracking a 78rpm at 2.25 grams is expecting far, far too much considering the amplitude levels on Shellacs. Increase to 5 grams (at least) and all should be fine.

[PsychMan]

Everyone has their own views on this, here’s mine

I have previously summed the stereo signal to 2 mono channels after it leaves the phono I preamp, this does help to reduce noise very slightly. I rigged up a switch box to enable or disable it

I currently do this at the cartridge pins because my cartridge supports this (Stanton 500). It’s worth checking the documents for that cartridge. I agree such low weights seem unacceptable for tracking well at such a high speed. It does depend on how compliant the stylus is though. As the grooves on 78s aren’t modulated “vertically” you won’t harm the 78s going higher in weight, but mistracking without enough weight could, so maybe experiment a bit. 78s were intended for heavy pickups, at one point 16g was considered light weight.

Riaa preamps strictly speaking aren’t correct for 78 EQs, but do give decent results. I use a dj mixer so I can compensate for it by boosting the mid range and rolling off the highs a tad to reduce surface noise. Ultimately RIAA still sounds good as it is in my opinion. You can get flat preamps and ones with various EQ options but they’re expensive so I’ve never bothered

Back to cartridges, ortofon make a mono 78 magnetic cartridge, but again quite expensive so I’ve stuck with the stanton 500, which for me is the best there is for 78s and tracks great around 4.5g

[bluepilot]

Originally Posted by Arthur2075

i have an AT91 cartridge with a 0.3mm tip for 78rpm. (AT95E for LP). I find the AT91tracking at 2.25gms does not track very well and will skip,

If you really have a 0.3mm stylus I'm not surprised it skips . Presumably you mean 3mil which is 0.075mm. The tracking weight depends on which stylus you are using. The one quoted for the cartridge relates to the stylus that the cartridge is supplied with which will usually be a microgroove stylus. If you have installed a 78rpm stylus then you need to find the correct tracking weight for that. Given that the AT91 has quite a high tracking weight I would guess something around 4-5g would be about right.

Personally I use either a Stanton 500 which tracks well at 4g or a Shure M95 which tracks well at 3g.

[PaulR]

I have a GL75 and have two heads for it. One is the one with lots of holes drilled in it and the other has some but fewer holes in it. I have a Denon MC cartridge in the less massive head tracking at about 2g and a Goldring G800 in the other with a 78rpm stylus. I find that the slightly larger mass of the head together with a higher mass of the cartridge makes it track 78s perfectly.

I think that the manufacturers don't consider 78s at all when they recommend tracking weights which are all aimed at stereo LPs. Could you try adding some mass to the head you use for 78s? Even a bit of blu tack might work at least to experiment.

78s are, of course, mono but the crackles are stereo. Pressing the mono button on the amp (if there is one) greatly improves the crackles.

[Arthur2075]

Thanks for the replies. It looks like the Stanton 500 is a favourite. The Audio Technica Mono3/SP moving coil also looks interesting, tracks up to 5gms.

[wd40addict]

I have the Mono3/SP and it works very well. Do note however, as others have said, that a bit more tracking weight on cartridges with 78 tips will help and do no harm. I also use an AT95E with 78 tip at 3g.

[Arthur2075]

Originally Posted by wd40addict

I have the Mono3/SP and it works very well. Do note however, as others have said, that a bit more tracking weight on cartridges with 78 tips will help and do no harm. I also use an AT95E with 78 tip at 3g.

Out of interest, what tracking weight do you use for the Mono3/SP? Being a high output moving coil does the 1.2 MV output have a volume issue? My 120USB is set to line output. How does the volume compare to the AT95? As the 3/SP is a mono cartridge I assume surface noise is lower than the AT95?

Roger

[wd40addict]

I use about 3.5g for the Mono3/SP, but obviously this could be increased upwards if necessary on problematic discs. Volume is less than the AT95E, but my preamp (Naim NAC72) has plenty of gain to spare. I run the AT95E in mono (both channels paralleled) so surface noise is as low as can be, but the Mono3/SP is probably slightly better.

A friend has your turntable and gets good results on 78s using an Ortofon 2M 78 cartridge, he sets tracking weight to about 3g.

Before you spend any money, do try increasing the tracking weight on your AT91 and see what you think. I assume you have a mono button somewhere? If not get a spare headshell for the AT91 and wire the channels together.

[Arthur2075]

Originally Posted by wd40addict

I use about 3.5g for the Mono3/SP, but obviously this could be increased upwards if necessary on problematic discs. Volume is less than the AT95E, but my preamp (Naim NAC72) has plenty of gain to spare. I run the AT95E in mono (both channels paralleled) so surface noise is as low as can be, but the Mono3/SP is probably slightly better.

A friend has your turntable and gets good results on 78s using an Ortofon 2M 78 cartridge, he sets tracking weight to about 3g.

Before you spend any money, do try increasing the tracking weight on your AT91 and see what you think. I assume you have a mono button somewhere? If not get a spare headshell for the AT91 and wire the channels together.

That’s a good tip, I have looked at the Ortofon, cost wise they are a lot more than the Stanton’s but perhaps in a different class?

How easy is it to wire the channels together? I was considering making up a couple of Y cables (two phono sockets to one socket for the turntable and one phono plug to two plugs for the pre amp) I am using a Behringer USB sound card on a Mac. Or is it better to do it at the cartridge pins? I suppose then there would be no need to change cables from mono to stereo.

Thanks for your help on this. I will check out the Ortofon again.

Roger

[rontech]

I have an Ortofon 2M 78 cartridge and find it excellent.

I am using the technica output direct from the deck ( i.e. NOT the USB ) a I prefer the sound that way.

Then into a NAD RIAA pre amp with the line level o/p into a QUAD 33 / 303 set up. The filtering and tone controls on the QUAD 33 provide a good range of adjustment to get each 78 to one's liking

[wd40addict]

It's better to do it in the headshell if you dedicate it to mono. Then all you need to do plug in either your stereo or mono headshell and there's no need to change any wiring.

[gramofiend]

I too have the Audio Technica Mono3/sp. I track mine at 5grams all though lower for any later plastic pressings, it sounds very good.
It was recommended by the stylus maker Wyndham Hodgson of The Expert Stylus and Cartridge Co, Surrey. They are ,to my knowledge, the only proffessionals in this country to offer such a service and still supply new styli for shure, ortofon and all high end cartridges. I also use conical styli in an ortofon OM body. Those styli are mounted on the Pro S stylus mount which Wyndham told me was a stylus with a stiffer cantilever to take higher tracking weights. The information on all these OM assemblies can be found on the ortofon websight. The cartridges can sill be sourced on the net in the usual places by just doing a search. Incidentally the OM pro S was the last stylus in general use on the EMT record players in BBC radio and after the swop out of the Garrard player fleet in the mid nineteen seventies in favour of Technics SP10's and EMT 950's, pick-up transducers were shure SC35's and later, ortofon OM ProS. The shure SC35 is also good, retipped, for 78 but I would never put a stereo LP of mine anywhere near the normal version even tracked by an SME or equivalent arm!
Great enjoyment is to be had from the music of the 1930's to the 1960's which was laid down on 78. Some of it, from private collectors, now finding sale in places such as NVCF amonst others and proving to have been very well looked after. Played with the right stylus and correct equalisation shows what can be obtained from those old grooves!
Enjoy.
Mike

[rontech]

I am contantly amazed at the sound quality on some 78's from the 1930's. I recently acquired a copy of Columbia CB524 ( Rec 1932 ) Rudy Vallee "Let's Put Out The Lights". There are no marks whatever on the playing surfaces!

There was a craze in audiophile circles for direct cut records in the 1970 / 1980 period. It occurred to me that any 78 rpm record cut before say 1945 was of necessity directly cut, which may account for rhythm and punch in some of these records.

[PaulR]

I think that Columbia produced some of the best recordings with the minimum of surface noise. Much better than HMV despite the fancy label!

[rontech]

That triggered a distant memory of my father telling me the same thing sometime in the early 1940's.

[Edward Huggins]

There are also the low noise, Pye-Nixa Jazz vinyl 78s, from the late 1950s....

[Hartley118]

Columbia 'New Process' laminated pressings from the 1920s can have very low surface noise. That provides the opportunity to introduce some EQ, including treble boost, and to extract remarkably good quality from the record. Sad that, after the merger with HMV, the conventional shellac mix was introduced, presumably better to cope with the rigours of heavy soundboxes and steel needles.

Unworn 78s from the 1950s can sound very good because of their relatively low surface noise and high modulation levels, leading to a decent signal to noise ratio.

As Edward indicates, late '50s Pye Nixa vinyl 78 discs can sound very good, as long as their grooves haven't been reshaped by a heavyweight acoustic soundbox!

Martin

[rontech]

As a student in 1956 I had a summer vacation job in a local amusment arcade and they had a 78 rpm jukebox ( Wurlitzer I think ) Whilst there, the juke box was replaced by a modern Bal Ami model playing 45 rpm discs. The manager was about to consign all the old pop 78's ( about a dozen or so I remember ) to the bin, whereupon I acquired them just in time. Some of these had only had a few playings and in many cases the "B" sides were unplayed. The playing quality on my first hifi ( ish ) system sounded pretty good!

[PaulR]

Pity you didn't manage to get the jukebox itself!!