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Old 22nd May 2013, 3:01 pm   #1
steviewonder
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Default Bush 191A TV

Hi all,
I appear to be the new owner of the "sausage telly",However was cheap and never been repaired!
Even the lopt is original!
it does have an issue with the frame linearity,however.
Just as the raster appears,the screen is full,then shrinks up from the bottom,as full brightness is achieved.
have replaced 3c18,to no effect.
I appreciate these are regarded as a naff set,as were so many bush sets of the early 70s,but is in new condition.
any ideas anyone?

thanks in advance,
steve
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Old 23rd May 2013, 9:24 pm   #2
Welsh Anorak
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Default Re: Bush 191A TV

Hi
Not quite sure which set this is - is it a TV191D (A640) or TV191S - or something else entirely?
The A 640/793 was certainly not naff - in fact gave one of the best pictures of the era. The A774 was not quite as good (er, well, pretty poor, in fact) and as for the A816 solid-state, well, enough said...
Glyn
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Old 23rd May 2013, 10:06 pm   #3
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Default Re: Bush 191A TV

I agree if this is the A640/793 chassis it is one of the best sets of this era. If it is the later A774 or A816 chassis although not quite as good are still well worth saving. Can you recheck the model number for us and possibly put a picture up so we can be tell which chassis is fitted in your telly.
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Old 23rd May 2013, 11:03 pm   #4
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Default Re: Bush 191A TV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsh Anorak View Post
The A 640/793 was certainly not naff - in fact gave one of the best pictures of the era.
Seconded, once the infernal agc-delay was turned completely off!

Ours was supplied by the rental firm with the delay control set half-way which caused the picture level to swing violently from one extreme to the other, often accompanied by sound fade and a crackling noise from the tube.

I asked one of their repairmen why they set it this way and he said it was to make the tube last longer but I got the impression it had the exact opposite effect.
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Old 24th May 2013, 11:54 am   #5
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Default Re: Bush 191A TV

I don't understand "sausage telly" - sorry. however, to add my 2 penneth - IMHO most BUSH sets were not 'naff' on the contrary I always considered them to be amongst the best sets around. This remark, of course, excludes the hideous A816, but we all make mistakes....
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Old 24th May 2013, 12:33 pm   #6
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Default Re: Bush 191A TV

Hi
I used to buy quite a few of these 171-191 series sets as a teenager from a local rental shop, all diagnosed with poor tubes. Once the BC108 in the PFL200 circuit was changed I found they had great tubes and I had some pocket money!
The single-standard 793 with plastic coated LOPT, better smoothers and more reliable dropper was probably Bush's best mono chassis.
Glyn
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Old 24th May 2013, 12:50 pm   #7
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Default Re: Bush 191A TV

Worst of Bush - The Turkish 2020 set.
Best - TV161 series, The A823 chassis.

Cheers,

Steve P.
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Old 25th May 2013, 12:19 am   #8
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Default Re: Bush 191A TV

Yes, without doubt a superb chassis and the only mechanical tuner I know that has 100% reset on UHF. The LOPT was a bit poor but they were only around £4.50 from Bush. Without doubt the best Bush dual standard chassis and they made some stinkers after the TV125. J.
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Old 25th May 2013, 4:48 am   #9
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Default Re: Bush 191A TV

Going OT slightly, I'm afraid, but I paid Comet £200 for my Turkish 2020T around 1989, and it was in daily use until 2004 and is still here as a spare. It needed a 1000-uF capacitor or two during its life, and a "bodge" resistor on the tube base as the tube just started to show its age by taking ages for the IC to black-level correct, but it really doesn't owe me anything.
(Its replacement was free and has SCARTs.)
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Old 25th May 2013, 7:12 am   #10
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Default Re: Bush 191A TV

hi to all,
Thanks for the replies,it is indeed the a774 chassis,single standard set,which i think is from 1972.(by the dates on the caps).
"sausage telly", refers to one of these being shot on a rifle range in the early days of "thats life",where they had "heap of the week".Apparently the same episode where someone claimed their dog could say sausages!!
I'm currently away from home until monday,but will post some pics then.
Thanks for the input guys!
steve
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Old 25th May 2013, 7:59 am   #11
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Default Re: Bush 191A TV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatercathodeshort View Post
Yes, without doubt a superb chassis and the only mechanical tuner I know that has 100% reset on UHF. The LOPT was a bit poor but they were only around £4.50 from Bush. Without doubt the best Bush dual standard chassis and they made some stinkers after the TV125. J.
Hello,

One other excellent characteristic of the RBM A640 chassis was the lack of intercarrier buzz on UHF/625.

Regards,

Dazzlevision
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Old 25th May 2013, 2:48 pm   #12
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Default Re: Bush 191A TV

A TV191 can have one of two chassis inside. If it's got ONE board in the back. it's like a TV181. If it's got 2, then it's like a TV161.

From what you say, It's probably the TV181 chassis, which is in the 1970/71 Newness Book.

First, try a new PCL805 valve. It may be past it's best.

The HT, measured at PCL805 Pin 7, should be 215 Volts. Check 3R57. Change 3C17. Might be wise to try 3C12 and 3C16 as well.Try adjusting 3RV7 and 3RV6 for optimum linearity. Then adjust the height to suit.

The section you want to look at is the Bottom Middle of the chassis, underneath the tube.

Cheers,

Steve P.

Mild Martin - That is now a rare set!!!
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Old 26th May 2013, 10:18 am   #13
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Default Re: Bush 191A TV

Hi
It was always confusing as to whhether you had a A774 or A 793. If the set had a D after the model number (eg TV186D) it was always the A640 and had the six-button tuner with 'keyplates' that could be adjusted for BI, III, VHF, UHF or a combination. It was a good tuner as John says.
The four-button sets were often the A774, and, to add confusion, could have SS after the number (TV183SS) whereas the single S would have the (better IMHO) A793 chassis which was the A640 with the dual standard twiddly bits left out. By the time the 191 series appeared, the double S was dropped as was the A793. Mind you, I am prepared to be wrong here - I can sense Steve P hovering over his keyboard!
By the way, the Bush 2020 was (I think) a carbon copy by Vestel of the Goldstar 2180 series with slight variations to the plug-in decoder. It used a Telefunken TDA 3560 and the cheaper Philips chip wouldn't work without some modification to the beam limiter.
I believe the 'That's Life' Bush shootout is available on YouTube.
Glyn
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Old 28th May 2013, 8:53 am   #14
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Default Re: Bush 191A TV

Hi again,
yes it is indeed the a774 chassis,For some reason the thread starts with 191a,Indeed the set is a bush tv191s.Apparently last used in 1977,and was working fine back then.
As for the later vestel mentioned,the TFK ic was,as i recall a tda 3652a,which used to give the blank screen problem.two resistors were changed nearby if you replaced it with the philips version.There were big problems with the teletext version,with dry joints on the rather flimsy pcb that was fixed behind the speaker.Happy days!
Even at best,a hazy picture!

steve
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Old 28th May 2013, 9:13 am   #15
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Default Re: Bush 191A TV

I remember seeing the 'That's Life' and I was furious about it because I had a very good relationship with A774s and, given the rubbish that some people could have bought at the time, I thought that it was a disproportionate attack on a good product from a reputable firm. How much it helped drive down Bush's sales I don't know but I stopped watching That's Life after that because I began to see that it was shallow in research and deep on gimmick & sensation.
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Old 28th May 2013, 10:40 pm   #16
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Default Re: Bush 191A TV

The A774 was a disaster for me. I had six TV181SS models delivered by Lenham Storage, RBM's delivery contractor. They were excellent and never damaged a receiver.
By the end of the day all six had lost line sync due to short circuit discriminator diodes due to CRT flash over. [quite normal when CRT's were new] The mod consisted of fitting 1k resistors in series with the diodes. The pictures were washed out with vast changes of contrast, for what there was of it, on scene changes. Increasing the video drive pot higher than the service manual recommended improved the picture but it was a very poor brother to the 640/793 chassis. After a week or two all the line transformers had failed with shorted overwinds and the replacements lasted no better. 12 months was the maximum life for the LOPT until RBM supplied a modified replacement for the original employing a stick rectifier. To be fair to RBM they never charged for the replacement transformers even when well out of guarantee so the customer was pleased to have the repairs carried out free of charge by myself. I think they were manufactured by a well known supplier of television components and not by RBM themselves. I also seem to remember soldering copper braid to the chassis members to earth the printed board to cure hum problems. It was a bit of a sad end to monochrome production from such a well known and trusted manufacturer.
You can't win them all! Regards, John.
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Old 30th May 2013, 2:33 pm   #17
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Default Re: Bush 191A TV

Hi
I'd say the 'sad end' was the A816 with an even worse LOPT and a complex 'bottom-up' HT stabilisation circuit.
I doubt that 'That's Life' article would have damaged sales as to most people it was just a telly. I assume the A774 was cheaper to build than the twin-panel 793. And I remember the solder braid trick to earth the frame as well. Oddly in my area there were many A640s but very few 774s, or else they might have all died by the time I started work.
Apologies for the 2020 typo - of course it was a TDA3562A. Does anyone know whether it was a copy of the Goldsar set or vice versa?
Glyn
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Old 30th May 2013, 5:00 pm   #18
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Default Re: Bush 191A TV

The Bush 2020 used the Vestel 11AK01 chassis. I believe that the factory in Turkey was initially set up by Thorn engineers. The 2020 does resemble the TX100 chassis.

DFWB.
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