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Old 2nd Jun 2023, 10:56 pm   #1
M0FYA Andy
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Default Vintage Burglar Alarm

On tonight's episode of the crime drama 'Dial 999', shown on Talking Pictures TV and dating from 1958, there were some excellent shots of the operation of burglar alarm. Triggered by the breaking of an infra-red beam, the mechanism was shown close-up, with the automated operation of a conventional dial mounted on the chassis to dial 999, and then the starting of a record (78rpm?) with the pre-recorded message of where the burglary was taking place.
Presumably state-of-the art in the 50s. Have any of these machines been preserved?

Andy
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Old 3rd Jun 2023, 12:21 am   #2
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Default Re: Vintage Burglar Alarm

This has been covered on the forum before at some time. One was shown on the Hunkin/Garrod Ch4 series Secret Life of... and I forget which one. Telephone probably.

edit: Yes, telephone, 16:30s in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R9bHJfymjg
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Old 3rd Jun 2023, 8:59 am   #3
M0FYA Andy
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Default Re: Vintage Burglar Alarm

Kevin, thanks for that link.
I'd venture to suggest that the clip in Dial 999 showed the dial operation a bit clearer!

Andy
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Old 3rd Jun 2023, 9:45 am   #4
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Default Re: Vintage Burglar Alarm

There have been several threads on these in the past a couple are linked below:

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=188396
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=35961
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=70200

The Dial 999 program was mentioned before in post #12 of the first link.

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Old 3rd Jun 2023, 10:44 am   #5
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Default Re: Vintage Burglar Alarm

Thanks!

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Old 3rd Jun 2023, 4:51 pm   #6
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Default Re: Vintage Burglar Alarm

Hi Andy,

I used to service these 999 auto diallers in the 70's but I have never seen one with a traditional GPO dial. For the units that played a record, the dial [9] pulses were provided by a toothed wheel on the actual record deck which was switched in at the start via a separate relay.

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Old 3rd Jun 2023, 5:11 pm   #7
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Default Re: Vintage Burglar Alarm

Yes, the Burgot unit I restored has an impulse cam and contacts on the turntable spindle. The attached photo shows the bottom end of the turntable spndle with the operatng link to the pickup arm camshaft removed.

I always thought that the 'twiddle the dial' mechanism n the film was ridiculously complicated and that there were clearly much easier ways to generate 9 line-breaks. But I suspect the Post Office insisted that the only way to generate dialing pulses was to use a telephone dial.
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Old 3rd Jun 2023, 6:07 pm   #8
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Default Re: Vintage Burglar Alarm

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDuell View Post
Yes, the Burgot unit I restored has an impulse cam and contacts on the turntable spindle. The attached photo shows the bottom end of the turntable spndle with the operatng link to the pickup arm camshaft removed.

I always thought that the 'twiddle the dial' mechanism n the film was ridiculously complicated and that there were clearly much easier ways to generate 9 line-breaks. But I suspect the Post Office insisted that the only way to generate dialing pulses was to use a telephone dial.
Yes the Burgot unit was quite popular Tony, but once again I have never ever seen a unit that used a dial mechanism & would suspect this was added in the film [not watched it BTW] for dramatic license. The Burgot unit & other similar ones would have had to be PO Approved as part of a Block 52A order to connect to their network so no need for the insistence on a dial.

Workshop 999 message recorders did have a dial but these were for tape machines only. The dial pulses were inputted & converted to audio tones on the tape prior to the message announcement. The "dial tones"' were then filtered via the on board electronics & used to switch a reed relay. Other phone numbers other than 999 could also be added if needs be.

Rog

Last edited by Roger Ramjet; 3rd Jun 2023 at 6:08 pm. Reason: add word
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Old 4th Jun 2023, 7:21 am   #9
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Default Re: Vintage Burglar Alarm

I've never seen one with a dial mechanism 'in the flesh' either. Only on that film clip. It shows a normal telephone dial in a mounting with a mechanism that inserts a pin into the '9' hole, rotates to the stop, lifts the pin so the dial runs back to normal, resets and repeats a couple more times.

I wonder if the original PO requirement was to use the dial and a prototype unt (at least) was made and filmed. Then somebody realised how ridiculous that was and allowed the use of the impulse contacts/cam driven some other way. Of course the unit had to be approved, back then everything connected to a telephone line had to be.
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Old 4th Jun 2023, 11:04 am   #10
M0FYA Andy
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Default Re: Vintage Burglar Alarm

Very interesting discussion. I can't believe that the dial mechanism was added just for the film, it looks far too complicated to be anything but a real mechanism.

Andy
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Old 4th Jun 2023, 11:54 am   #11
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Default Re: Vintage Burglar Alarm

The ones I remember from the 70s used a 45rpm record and were fully transistorised - one of my uncles owned a burglar alarm company and he used to install them.
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Old 4th Jun 2023, 12:50 pm   #12
TonyDuell
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Default Re: Vintage Burglar Alarm

Are you sure it was a 45rpm record? The Burgot unit I have takes a 7" record, certainly, but I counted the turntable revolutions in a minute and got 34, which leads me to believe it's a 33+1/3 rpm disk.

Also the stylus looks intact but it skates over a normal 7" microgroove record which makes me suspect the original (which I don't have) was a standard groove (as more commonly found on 78rpm disks)record.


Going back to post #10, I would agree that the mechanism to operate the dial is far too complicated to be added just for the film. My guess is that it is a real dialing mechanism. Either it was made for a prototype burglar alarm and by the time they went into production the PO had decided to allow another method of producing the pulses or it was indeed used in a few production models but was quickly superseded
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Old 4th Jun 2023, 4:02 pm   #13
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Default Re: Vintage Burglar Alarm

What does surprise me is that the film showed in depth information on how the burglar alarm worked to the public arena.

Even up to this day & age, detailed info equipment technology is not normally made readily available to all & sundry (for obvious reasons).

Bit of a long shot but maybe the dial was deliberately added to confuse would be villains ?

Rog

Last edited by Roger Ramjet; 4th Jun 2023 at 4:03 pm. Reason: change word
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Old 4th Jun 2023, 4:33 pm   #14
M0FYA Andy
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Default Re: Vintage Burglar Alarm

Could it be that by the time the programme was made (1958), the mechanism shown had already been superceeded by later designs? Given that the make of the alarm was clearly given, it must have had the full cooperation of the manufacturer. Perhaps they hoped it would boost their sales?

Andy
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Old 4th Jun 2023, 11:28 pm   #15
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Default Re: Vintage Burglar Alarm

The one I linked-to in post 2 with the telephone dial (and the Dial 999 film) is a Burgot and Ch4 filmed it at the Science Museum stores, it's still in their inventory.
https://blog.sciencemuseum.org.uk/burglars-beware/
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Old 5th Jun 2023, 6:38 pm   #16
Roger Ramjet
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Default Re: Vintage Burglar Alarm

Wow ! That link was fascinating Kevin,

It certainly looks genuine and given the date of 1939 clearly predates my time in the security industry.

My old boss used to work for Burgot so I will try to track him down, although I suspect the 999 dialler unit predated even his time.

It just goes to show how Vintage Tech can give more modern kit a good run for it's money.

Rog

Last edited by Cobaltblue; 5th Jun 2023 at 7:07 pm. Reason: Automotive
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Old 5th Jun 2023, 8:38 pm   #17
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Default Re: Vintage Burglar Alarm

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDuell View Post
Are you sure it was a 45rpm record? The Burgot unit I have takes a 7" record, certainly, but I counted the turntable revolutions in a minute and got 34, which leads me to believe it's a 33+1/3 rpm disk.
No - it was high up and I was nine.
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Old 5th Jun 2023, 11:30 pm   #18
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Default Re: Vintage Burglar Alarm

I've just watched the episode in question and now I am left wondering why that convoluted method of dialling 999 was used when the GPO had the Autodial No.1 unit that would have been more sensible?
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