Telephone identity

[ukcol]

A friend of mine bought this telephone at an antique shop in the Lake District about 25 years ago. He cannot remember the exact price he paid but it was over £100.

Is it original or a reproduction? What date would it be? What is its approximate value?

I would appreciate anything you telephone guys can tell me about it.

[russell_w_b]

Originally Posted by ukcol

Is it original or a reproduction? What date would it be?

I would say the Bell receiver and the upright are original; the cord to the receiver has been added later, and the dial is a more modern dial (No:12 with the finger stop of a dial No:21 - a 'bitsa' - perhaps an Indian version?). If there should be a dial, it should be a No:10 (slipping cam) or an earlier No:8.

1920s sometime, but these instruments would be used way after the introduction of the Bakelite telephones, and a dial (an original dial hitherto described) may have been legitimately added after the 1930s?

[ukcol]

Thanks Russell.

[ThePillenwerfer]

I'd bet the dial is a 21FA Steel meant for payphones. Indian 'phones I've seen have all had ATC-types.

As for price, I'd certainly expect to pay more than that today in a retail environment. What your mate would get for it depends on condition (does it have a bell set or has it had an induction coil hidden in the base, or is it as made and therefore not able to be used as it stands) and who's interested at the time and in the place it's offered.

— Joe

[ukcol]

Thanks Joe. There is no bell it would have to be used with an external bell.

I (rightly or wrongly) assumed that all exchanges are tone dialing only now, so it would not work on a public line as it stands anyway.

[ThePillenwerfer]

A "Bell-set" is more than just a bell: it also contains bits that more modern 'phones contain in their bases.

BT exchanges still understand pulse dialling as do MOST Virgin Media ones. Reports are mixed with regard to the smaller companies like Sky and TalkTalk.

— Joe

[russell_w_b]

The 'bell set' usually contains the induction coil and capacitor. Here's a cct for a 'Telephone, Pillar, 150 and how it is connected to the bell-set. I understand they were never officially referred to as a 'candlestick' telephone.

[russell_w_b]

And this should work on a 'plug-in' system. Colours are for a standard BT plug and lead and the numbers refer to the PLUG pins, looking at the top, wire to you, pins away from you, detent clip to the right.

[PJL]

This is a thread on my 150 which is pretty original 1929 vintage: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=119966.

You can just wire it up with a small series resistor and it should work but the thread also shows how to wire a 700 series induction coil for use with the 150. I still haven't managed to find my bell which is in a box somewhere in the garage.

[ukcol]

Originally Posted by ukcol

I (rightly or wrongly) assumed that all exchanges are tone dialing only now...............

Wrongly apparently.

I'll have to ask my friend if he wants to use it, he is on a BT line.

[PJL]

Just to make it clear:
1. You only need a 22 ohm series resistor to get it working. The dial should work but the sound output will be low.
2. An induction coil is a transformer that improves the sound output level and removes some of the sidetone. Sidetone is the sound from the local microphone (transmitter) in the earpiece (receiver).
3. You do not need a bell to make use of an induction coil.

Lastly, the 1936 carbon mic on mine works reasonably well but I understand they were never great.

[Pellseinydd]

A few comments. The dial label 'Hastings 37' is not an original. Hastings was a manual exchange until late 1974 and had over 11,000 lines on it at change-over so couldn't have had a two digit numbering scheme. As has been mentioned, the dial is a much later one which could have been fitted 'in service' . Likewise the dial is post 1959 - it isn't a metal backed dial - s has been mentioned probably a 'Dial 21FA Steel' used on the Tele 705 Pay on Answer Payphone. It has a plastic number plate/ring.
The 'Transmitter No 22' is post 1929 as the 'Transmitter Inset No 10' it used wasn't developed until then - for the introduction of the 'Tele 164' 'microtelephone' handset. Again could have been changed 'in service' to improve transmission.

Re the cord to the Bell Receiver - probably original as I suspect that this may be a telephone for a PAX. Non-GPO phone could have the tubular cord fitted rather than the two conductor twisted one fitted on GPO phones. See http://britishtelephones.com/gec/k8385.htm very much like a lot of their Bakelite telephones were 'tubular' rather than plaited.

Are there any numbers/letters stamped on the blackened brass 'knuckle joint' on the top of the pillar that the Transmitter mounts onto. If GPO should have the model number of the telephone on one side and the GPO's manufacturer's code letter/letters and year of manufacture on the otherside. I have an original candlestick phone that has no markings.

Have you looked inside the telephone? GPO ones had the circuit diagram with the number of the telephone on it pasted onto the top of the cast iron base.

Remember few telephones these days are in 'as originally supplied' condition. Incidentally the 'Tele 150' isn't the only 'candlestick'. The other ones often found are the Tele 156 for local battery systems - could be fitted with a dial; and the Tele No 2 and No 4- the earlier versions with no provision for a dial. Then there are others - I've got a Tele 72 (with a Dial No 1) and a Tele 82 (with Dial No 3). There are also others with earlier dials - the Tele 150 being introduced with the new Dial No 10.

I remember a place in Chester that had dozens of GPO Factory refurbished Tele 150's in their original packaging (they also had new/ PO factory refurbished Tele 332s) for 50p each!! Actually it was 10/- (ten shillings) as it was in the mid 1960's. I also got a Tele No 11 and a Tele No 59 from them for 10/- each.
Those were the days. There were still plenty of candlesticks in GPO service into the 1960's. can remember converting manual exchanges to auto and literally hundreds of candlestick phones were recovered as the auto phones were fitted. Sadly all accounted for and returned to Factories Dept for breaking up for scrap.

Definitely not a 'reproduction though. Worth a bit more with the correct dial a No 12 or preferably a No 10..

[russell_w_b]

Originally Posted by Pellseinydd

Those were the days. There were still plenty of candlesticks in GPO service into the 1960's. can remember converting manual exchanges to auto and literally hundreds of candlestick phones were recovered as the auto phones were fitted. Sadly all accounted for and returned to Factories Dept for breaking up for scrap.

I bought a brand-new unopened (old stock) Bell receiver (as per photo), sealed in a plastic bag with a 'crow's foot' on the label within at a radio rally at Leeds back in '82. It cost me fifty pee. I wish I'd bought the lot! I got it from something like A.H. Supplies, but can't really remember.

I sold it a few years ago at a tidy profit, but wondered just where it had come from: that it was in a plastic bag, as used for Government radio components (ex-AM, say) since the 1950s at least suggested to me these receivers were being manufactured until after-WWII.

Of course, the receivers were used on wooden wall instruments too.

[ukcol]

Originally Posted by Pellseinydd

Are there any numbers/letters stamped on the blackened brass 'knuckle joint' on the top of the pillar that the Transmitter mounts onto. If GPO should have the model number of the telephone on one side and the GPO's manufacturer's code letter/letters and year of manufacture on the otherside. I have an original candlestick phone that has no markings.

I have looked on and inside the telephone for any identifying numbers; the only one I can see is on the back of the mouthpiece "TE234 No.22".

.

[Dave Moll]

Is there nothing stamped on the "ears" of that brass hinge in the picture?

[ukcol]

If there is I didn't spot it. I will have a look again the next time I visit my friend.

[ukcol]

Hi Dave

There are numbers there.

"PL-30" with "234" under the line, on one side of the hinge.

On the opposite side "No.150"

[Dave Moll]

The latter confirms that it is a 150, or at least the brass bit is - there's no absolute guarantee that the rest of the body started out life with the workings. It would appear that the "PL" is a manufacturer code, and the "30" indicates manufacture in 1930. Can anyone add what the "234" indicates?

[Pellseinydd]

'234' is the GPO equivalent of what most folk would call a 'Mark 1' - the first version. 235 was the second version and 236 the third version. I've never seen anything marked above 236.

[PJL]

Just about every part is marked with a type number and date. You will find one inside the receiver and on the back of the transmitter and the dial. The receiver on mine is 4 years earlier than the rest of it.