Rotary 746 phone not dialing out

[Martin Bush]

Hi all

I have my old rotary 746 phone plugged into my BT router and I know that it takes incoming calls. Yesterday I had cause to try to dial out and it didn't do anything... it wasn't an emergency, so not a major problem.

I am clearly no expert on these things, but it certainly used to work on the old socket. Any ideas what the problem might be?

To be fair it's almost never used - I just like to have it there and working in the event of mobiles going down.

Martin

[Station X]

Is this one you bought from me some years ago?

If so it's been converted to work with a plug and socket system where the ring capacitor is in the master socket.

[Nickthedentist]

Hi Martin,

Nice to see you back.

No dialing out when connected to the BT router suggests that your router can only accept DTMF ("tone") dialling, whereas the 746 with its rotary dial (obviously) uses traditional LD ("pulse") signalling.

Try it out in someone else's house who still has a traditional "analogue" phone line. It will probably work fine.

If this is the case, you need some kind of tone-to-pulse converter, e.g. Dialgizmo, Rotatone etc.
https://www.dialgizmo.com/
https://www.telephonelines.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=922

As always, happy to help out practically if you want, time permitting.

N.

[Martin Bush]

Thanks chaps.

This is not the one I got from you @Station X - it's another I have which I made look like my grandparents' old phone which got lost but had happy memories for me. I recall doing some sort of conversion on it to work on the plug and socket line and it did work both ways.

I may look into one of those devices @Nickthedentist but with the amount it gets used I may wait and see if one pops up on here second hand.

In the meantime, if anyone wants to speak to me, you will have to ring me I guess it saves on the phone bill!

This may be a daft question, but I will ask it anyway. Is there any way to dial via the mouthpiece? By that I mean an app that creates tones, or am I mixing a few things up?

[Nickthedentist]

There’s an app called Dialer which generates tones. Holding the speaker of your phone to the 746 mouthpiece should then do as you describe.

[Dave Moll]

Originally Posted by Nickthedentist

If this is the case, you need some kind of tone-to-pulse converter, e.g. Dialgizmo, Rotatone etc.

I think Nick meant "pulse-to-tone" converter. Tone-to-pulse is what would be needed to get a DTMF 'phone to dial into a mechanical exchange such as some of us have. These seem to be much rarer than pulse-to-tone.

Incidentally, if the router not accepting LD pulses is the problem, you will have the same problem with any pulse-only 'phone.

[Nickthedentist]

Sorry Dave, you're right

[Gabe001]

£22.99 | Dial Type Old Telephone Pulse Signal TO Dual Tone Multiple Frequency Audio DTMF Converter FOR Network / Fiber Rotary Telephone
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EGaNYFt

Works well with my 332. You will probably need to reinstate the phone's ringing capacitor. Also flip the red and green wires if the red led doesn't illuminate when you dial.

[Oldcodger]

Originally Posted by Nickthedentist

Hi Martin,

Nice to see you back.

No dialing out when connected to the BT router suggests that your router can only accept DTMF ("tone") dialling, whereas the 746 with its rotary dial (obviously) uses traditional LD ("pulse") signalling.

Try it out in someone else's house who still has a traditional "analogue" phone line. It will probably work fine.

If this is the case, you need some kind of tone-to-pulse converter, e.g. Dialgizmo, Rotatone etc.
https://www.dialgizmo.com/
https://www.telephonelines.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=922

As always, happy to help out practically if you want, time permitting.

N.

Simpler solution in own home ( to ascertain what sort of signalling line accepts). Lift handset and tap the hook springs ( black buttons that handset rests on when handset is down. Dial tone should dissapear and be followed in a bit of time by a tone. If that works, then listen to earpeace whilst dialing. Dial tone should be interupted.
If dial tone stays this time, then somat is up with dial. If not, then you will need a pulse to tone convertor.

[Pellseinydd]

Originally Posted by Oldcodger

Simpler solution in own home ( to ascertain what sort of signalling line accepts). Lift handset and tap the hook springs ( black buttons that handset rests on when handset is down. Dial tone should dissapear and be followed in a bit of time by a tone. If that works, then listen to earpeace whilst dialing. Dial tone should be interupted.
If dial tone stays this time, then somat is up with dial. If not, then you will need a pulse to tone convertor.

Other option is to use an Analogue Terminal Adapter which accepts pulse dialing as well as DTMF dialling such as the Current Grandstream HT8XX range of ATAs. such as HT801 (1 FXS port), HT802 or HT 812 (two FXS ports) HT814 (4 FXS ports), HT818 (8 ports). Earlier Grandatream HT5XX and HT7XX ATAs also work with pulse dialling.. The earlier Grandstream HT2XX or HT4XX DO NOT work with pulse dialling.

Avoid purchasing Grandstream ATAs badged with Vonage or ACN as their software is locked to those networks.

I managed to get Grandstream to modify the firmware about 2022 for the current HT8XX range to use the reverse New Zealand dials .

The advantage of an ATA over the 'Pulse to Tone' converter is that you don't get the DTMF bleeps as you dial out which you getwith the P2T converters like the Dialgizmo..

[Martin Bush]

Thanks to everyone who has responded to this thread. I am still looking into the right solution. However I have to say that since I posted I've not had one incoming call nor felt the need to dial out. That's a shame.

I don't mean to say I feel lonely I just feel like I may be trying to keep something going way beyond it's usefulness.

[Pellseinydd]

Originally Posted by Martin Bush

Thanks to everyone who has responded to this thread. I am still looking into the right solution. However I have to say that since I posted I've not had one incoming call nor felt the need to dial out. That's a shame.

I don't mean to say I feel lonely I just feel like I may be trying to keep something going way beyond it's usefulness.

'Way beyond its usefulness' ?? !!

All these 706/746's are still connected up and working! And that was at the Caerwys (Flintshire) village show last month. Parents/grandparents love showing kids how they used to dial. One 7/8 year old kept coming back all day to dial between the phones - his mother knew where she could find him!

All the phones were working via an Analogue Terminal Adapter with old three digit 'Caerwys' phone numbers. They were all set up on CNet - our replica of the UK GPO public network as it was in the 196070's. All calls are free and no line rental, all you need is an Analogue Terminal Adapter (ATA) . It extends into over 25 countries worldwide as far away as New Zealand. Literally thousands of old phones and even old Strowger exchanges still working. I have a former GPO public exchange which server a village in Northumberland from 1929 until it was replaced in 1950 and survived until I found it in 1999. Also got the last public electro-mechanical exchange from the BT network which finished in July 1995.

CNet 0352 2979 or 01 HEA 4321

[Nickthedentist]

Yes, we have a 232, 332 and 706 hardwired to the BT line in our house. We live in a mobile black spot so they are used, incoming and outgoing, literally every day. Our 8 year old calls her granny almost every day for a chat!

[Cobaltblue]

Can we get back to helping Martin please.

This thread has kind of gone off track

Cheers

Mike T

[The Philpott]

If i remember i will take one of these 'phones to work tomorrow and try to dial out to someone. It is allegedly modified for tone dialling. All is good in the name of research.

Martin, by all means PM me the appropriate 'phone number. This gets us back on track-but to be honest i'm not convinced the thread realistically ever drifted.

Dave

[Station X]

So is this a DTMF phone or a loop disconnect phone? If it has a dial it's definitely loop disconnect. Loop disconnect phones with a keypad are rare, they're generally DTMF.

I doubt that a router would support loop disconnect.

Originally Posted by Martin Bush

Thanks chaps.

This is not the one I got from you @Station X - it's another I have which I made look like my grandparents' old phone which got lost but had happy memories for me. I recall doing some sort of conversion on it to work on the plug and socket line and it did work both ways.

I may look into one of those devices @Nickthedentist but with the amount it gets used I may wait and see if one pops up on here second hand.

In the meantime, if anyone wants to speak to me, you will have to ring me I guess it saves on the phone bill!

This may be a daft question, but I will ask it anyway. Is there any way to dial via the mouthpiece? By that I mean an app that creates tones, or am I mixing a few things up?

[Station X]

Originally Posted by Martin Bush

Thanks to everyone who has responded to this thread. I am still looking into the right solution. However I have to say that since I posted I've not had one incoming call nor felt the need to dial out. That's a shame.

Have you tried calling it from a mobile phone?

[Martin Bush]

Hi all

Sorry, I didn't realise there were responses to this after my last post.

To clarify, the phone is one with a dial so 'loop disconnect' if I read the above post correctly. It does receive incoming calls - this happens very rarely now but we do get the odd one and if I get to the phone in time I can pick up and chat to the caller. The issue is that I can't dial out.

As I said earlier, despite my enthusiasm for vintage tech, I'm not sure whether the phone itself is useful based on the very low use it gets now.

[Dave Moll]

Is there any chance that you have any other loop disconnect (pulse) 'phone (or can borrow one) to check whether your line accepts LD pulses? If it does, it may simply be thar your 746 operates outside the tolerance of the line (e.g. too slowly).

If no LD 'phone is able to dial out, the only solution is (as said) to interpose a pulse-to-tone converter such as, for instance, a Dialgizmo, or add a Rotatone internally (both more expensive and needs to be wired in).

[Martin Bush]

I may do Dave, I will need to do some digging though as it's the sort of thing that will be in a box, behind a box and under a bed

We did have a modern cordless which I did use for work at home when my mobile was malfunctioning and it's for that reason I would like an old style phone of some sort available. But it's still down the list of priorities.

The is again to all on this thread. I think we can put it to bed for now. Today I really just wanted to say thanks for the contributions and those I missed.