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Old 9th Jan 2019, 5:57 pm   #21
John10b
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture BBC News today.

This interesting topic has been discussed on more than one occasion on this forum. As I understand it there is a movement within government to look as the whole issue, not sure how far itís got.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 6:47 pm   #22
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture BBC News today.

Quote:
As I understand it there is a movement within government to look as the whole issue
Look at, sounds about right.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 9:15 pm   #23
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture BBC News today.

We had all this in the not that distant past. Prices for what were then "luxury"goods, but are now normal items for most, were in multiples of average weekly wages. We made do, saved up, and were thankful. Good luck to anyone who expects voters to accept a return to those days. A compromise, hopefully, but not 180 degrees.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 10:53 pm   #24
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture BBC News today.

One could argue that a cheap toaster should be regarded as a disposable item, but a dishwasher or washing machine should be fixable. To an extent I have found this to be the case, with universal washing machine sump pumps and generic oven elements.
I have repaired several microwave ovens by canibilasing HV diodes, magnetrons, micro-switches etc from other makes of scrap machines.

I don't know if the Smeg and Bosh fraternity's subscribe to this generic universality, if they don't that's a good reason to avoid them.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 11:12 pm   #25
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture BBC News today.

I'd like to be optimistic about this subject but in the last few decades both the globalising minimum production cost culture and the liability culture have become far more prominent. Manufacturers will all be wary (to say the least) of letting anyone have a go at their stuff down the line- and, more than most I suspect, on the forum we've all come across the aftermath of those whose confidence exceeded competence, all too frequently dangerously so. Besides, you don't need to be a revolutionary or a conspiracy theorist to be aware that good intentions are all too often greatly diluted or kicked into the long grass by the pressure of vested interests.

I'll endeavour to keep things going where possible and worthwhile, though, (and sometimes just for the satisfaction and learning) and this forum and others have been invaluable in that respect.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 11:31 pm   #26
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture BBC News today.

I don't suppose there's anything really wrong with limited lifetime items - provided the old device can be recycled to a large extent. There'd be little use for innovation and a decline in manufacturing productivity if everything worked 'forever'.

The biggest issue is, and always has been, the LABOUR charges to get items repaired. Now that I'm semi-retired (still self employed though) I offer our local community a one off (no fix, no fee) repair charge of £25 plus parts (at cost) regardless of the time it takes to fix the item.

I've repaired many TV sets (usual dry capacitor and dud LED backlight issues) and even a 3500W inverter (4p part!) for the £25 fee. To be fair, around 30% of the stuff that come to me is genuinely BER but the clients usually donate them for spares if this is the case.

I realise this wouldn't ever work on a mass-consumer basis or for anyone seeking to make a living but it keeps me occupied, happy and feeling good about helping locals.

Maybe if recycling these items took the form of chipping, dicing and grinding them into the smallest parts they could be 90%+ separated for materials and thus better re-used?
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 11:39 pm   #27
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture BBC News today.

Further to the comment by Chris [at post 2*] that's how KIA got established just at the point where the vehicle re-cycling schemes were in vogue.They offered very high quality cars with a 7 year guarantee. It seemed unbelievable but it wasn't. Probably a loss leader as the Supermarkets operate. "Simples" as the Meerkats say! We certainly won't be claiming on our car which is still going strong! I rather fear that few people will get on the re-cycling bus though. It's an instant world now. That's why we are all so happy-especially our depressed naive children.

If you haven't seen the film Interstellar I strongly recommend it to the Forum. Primarily this is a father/daughter opus. Too much consumerism and too many people has turned the United States into a Dust Bowl [as in Kansas during the 1930'S Grapes of Wrath watch that first]. There is no Army as it can't be afforded. The government now just wants farmers not progress. Belief in the Moon Landings is not PC. Conspiracy Theories are turned on their heads and re-cycling is paramount once more-especially drones from India falling into low orbit and being captured for their solar panels. There is much more including multi dimensional theory. It's very long but my daughter coped.
I'm not sure if it did well. [Too complicated you know] Tesla would approve!

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Old 10th Jan 2019, 12:31 am   #28
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Question Re: Changing the throw away culture BBC News today.

Remember the Philips G6 CTV? When first released in 1967, retail price was £341. That sum of money at today's prices is equivalent to £6,036. (I used several on-line inflation calculators to obtain that data).
At that price and at today's labour charges etc., surely a repair would be economical?
Late last year, for just under £6,000, we bought a low mileage, one previous owner, Astra 1.6 SRi motor car.

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Old 10th Jan 2019, 12:42 am   #29
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture BBC News today.

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Originally Posted by Skywave View Post
Remember the Philips G6 CTV? When first released in 1967, retail price was £341. That sum of money at today's prices is equivalent to £6,036.
At that price and at today's labour charges etc., surely a repair would be economical?
It would, but like then, not many would be sold or rented. If I had to pay that sort of money for a TV I just would not bother and find more economical entertainment.
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Old 10th Jan 2019, 1:24 am   #30
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture BBC News today.

In the UK, recycling centres do not allow the general public to buy any electrical items unless you have completed a Health and Safety Course and possess a licence to do so. I was told this licence costs in the region of a grand ! The law should be changed to allow adults to buy and repair items at their own risk. Existing health and safety laws do not help the environment and if changed could also generate additional income for local authorities, if not pocket money for the hard-working folk there.
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Old 10th Jan 2019, 4:40 am   #31
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture BBC News today.

There is a Doco really worth watching called The Light Bulb Conspiracy.

While there are some facts about fixing the life & prices of bulbs by the major manufacturers, much of it is about how people are trained or cultured to believe "old is bad" and new is good; "Throw away the old and buy the new". With no thought to repairs.

It is interesting how this is done and how people are manipulated with this notion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdHIqa53-tY&t=15s

Last edited by Argus25; 10th Jan 2019 at 4:49 am. Reason: fix link
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Old 10th Jan 2019, 9:09 am   #32
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture BBC News today.

Honestly I’m ok with throwing stuff away as long as it is effectively recycled. The integration these days makes repair impractical.

What I want to see is where the manufacturer has to buy back the dead item for slightly greater than material value as part of the recycling process much like the glass bottle buy back that some European countries operate.

That would kill waste instantly and make products more reliable overnight.
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Old 10th Jan 2019, 10:09 am   #33
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture BBC News today.

I can't but guess that the labour costs involved in truly recycling, say, 90% of a cheap and cheerful toaster every three to five years, including transport and disassembly, would make it quite as costly an object over time as a relatively permanent toaster which now and again receives a new element and possibly a replacement timer.

Disclaimer: the household toaster is a Rowlett Rutland Regent, with an old flea market Dualit on standby in case of its temporary failure. The Rowlett isn't too dissimilar from a Dualit operationally, but won me over by its aesthetic properties and the ability to produce one slice or three properly, not just two or four. Plus there's a bell to announce when the toast is ready, though as it doesn't get raised into the cold air there's no need to rush to get to it...

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Old 10th Jan 2019, 11:35 am   #34
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture BBC News today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly 7 View Post
The law should be changed to allow adults to buy and repair items at their own risk.
Another bottle, another Genie. Signing to say you accept a risk wouldn't stop the no win no fee vultures tearing that one to bits, they're probably planning their next campaigns now.
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Old 10th Jan 2019, 11:43 am   #35
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture BBC News today.

History is awash with cases of well-meaning ideas being turned into SNAFU by the few at the expense of everyone else....
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Old 10th Jan 2019, 10:00 pm   #36
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture BBC News today.

Previously, as a spectator in this thread, it has inspired me with one set.

I usually think nothing of spending an inordinate amount of time repairing/restoring equipment twice my age, some of it of no value or interest to many I'll wager, and what's to follow fits this category nicely, and yet, saved from landfill.

After 12 years of constant use, my Pure Tempus-1 (cough-DAB) radio decided before Christmas, enough was enough. As an electronics engineer and reading this thread, I had other ideas. It was likely to sit on the shelf for many a moon, you're not supposed to repair these things, are you(?)

A 7805 regulator, toasted, a couple of leaking electrolytics & scorched track (poor design, not my iffy soldering), replaced these and it's playing again. I appreciate the general public would be 'wowed' by this, Pure, most likely horrified, since they've lost a sale by way of replacement. Me, I'm happy my old device has 'saved' the environment from toxic pollutants, aside from energy consumption, and some parts.

Under EU law, isn't the manufacturer responsible for disposing of their products, when they reach 'end of life'? Wouldn't it be great if you could return your 'scrap' item to 'whence' it were purchased. I guess orphaned brands would end up, ideally, in the correct recycling centre, unless they're truly vintage, of course.

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Old 11th Jan 2019, 3:29 pm   #37
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture BBC News today.

I love the internet/you tube repair videos whenever I have something new or outside my experience. Recently I fixed a computer monitor by replacing the bulging caps in the power supply and if it had not been for the video, would probably have damaged it irrepairably getting it apart. As for repairing/recycling it's a pity the mens sheds movement cannot be used for this - often they have the requisite skills and experience and one wonders if a small levy on new goods to support this activity might not be a bad idea. Another alternative would be to require the makers to supply spares to them at cost.
Must admit I don't count the cost of repairs - recently I fixed a 1940's Weston multimeter after about 2 hours probing and measuring - a new cheap digital meter would have been far more sensible - but not half as much fun.
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 8:47 pm   #38
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture BBC News today.

Not sure if I've missed it but what happens about the insurance aspects of Repair Cafe/ men in sheds organisations?

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Old 12th Jan 2019, 9:30 am   #39
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture, BBC News

Ed's onto something here, as today it's all about traceability if there's a claim, be it warranty or otherwise.

What ESD measures have you put in place, when were your tools (including ESD wire cutters, soldering iron, screwdrivers et al), bench mat, chair, flooring and wriststrap last tested, and when was your ESD tester last calibrated, where are your records, cal certs etc, when was your last audit.

You would also likely need an area for live testing, since you shouldn't power HV gear in an ESD area.

Would we need full calibration of all our equipment, including a portable appliance tester, would we require C&G certification for the PAT, then keeping records/results of everything mains powered, that leaves the workshop.

Then there's lone working & parts supplier traceability.

I'm sure there are other pitfalls I've missed, though I'm sure many here would be only too pleased to use their qualifications, experience and tools for such endeavors, myself included.

Food for thought, but something needs to change.

Mark
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Old 12th Jan 2019, 11:01 am   #40
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture, BBC News

Public liability insurance, that's the one I was also looking for.

My excuse, the guys from work & I are off for a brewery tour, then out for the evening, a celebration if you will for one of them being given the clear from cancer, following months of chemotherapy and monitoring.

Mark
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