|
General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc. |
|
Thread Tools |
15th Mar 2017, 12:48 am | #1 |
Rest in Peace
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hexham, Northumberland, UK.
Posts: 2,234
|
The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
Has anyone noticed how the phonetic alphabet appears to be used more and more these days? I say this because at one time, in fact not so very long ago the phonetic alphabet seemed to be almost the exclusive domain of emergency services, military organisations, radio amateurs and the like. Nowadays, it is surprisingly common to find that the person talking to you on the phone from whatever organisation or call centre can rattle through it no problem. I wonder if it is taught as part of the induction process for this type of job?
Alan. |
15th Mar 2017, 12:59 am | #2 |
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,876
|
Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
Often the stuff information being passed gets typed into a computer and has to have the exact spelling, spaces and case or else links to databases don't work, you get the wrong goods etc. In ye goode olde days there seemed to be more intelligence used and errors were noticed and clarified.
I think the need for phonetics has increased. I once tried to concoct the world's worst phonetic alphabet G-for-Gnomon F-for-Floccinaucinihilipilification K-for-Knot N-for-Not And so on. I was especially proud of R-for-Repeat - that ought to sow great confusion David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done |
15th Mar 2017, 2:28 am | #3 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK.
Posts: 5,339
|
Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
I started learning Italian last year. Our tutor told us that, while Italians are generally familiar with the international scheme for external use, for domestic use the phonetic alphabet is mainly based on Italian towns and cities, most of which I had never heard of (A for Ancona etc.). As an exception, Y is for York!
|
15th Mar 2017, 7:52 am | #4 |
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,876
|
Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
The nice thing about phonetic alphabets is there are so many to choose from.
I learned Morse from tapes where a voice read what had just been sent in the old American military phonetics How Nan Tare... Country names are still often heard on theHF bands David (Guatamala Madagascar 4 Zanzibar Nicaragua Xanadu)
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done |
15th Mar 2017, 9:07 am | #5 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK.
Posts: 3,687
|
Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
Quote:
And every call-centre I speak to now appears to repeat my post-code in phonetics, which is no bad thing.
__________________
Regds, Russell W. B. G4YLI. |
|
15th Mar 2017, 9:44 am | #6 |
Nonode
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Resolven, Wales; and Bristol, England
Posts: 2,608
|
Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
I've been using phonetics since 1976 when my boss was an ex-sergeant.
I find it amusing when a sales person repeats my "Bravo Sierra Niner" postcode as BS9....
__________________
Richard Index: recursive loop: see recursive loop |
15th Mar 2017, 9:54 am | #7 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Charmouth, Dorset, UK.
Posts: 3,601
|
Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
I am familiar with it as a radio ham, but yes, I have noticed its increased use by customer services operators which surprised me initially but it seems to be quite common now.
Peter |
15th Mar 2017, 11:36 am | #8 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK.
Posts: 5,339
|
Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
Possibly reflecting the increasing use of personnel whose mother tongue is not English? In most other languages there are certain letters that sound like different letters in English: for example, in German, A is pronounced like R, E like A, I like E, and W like V. One of the first things you are taught when learning a new language, is how to say the alphabet in that language.
|
15th Mar 2017, 11:43 am | #9 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK
Posts: 7,498
|
Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
I think what is being described here is the NATO phonetic alphabet. when I think of 'phonetic alphabet' I imagine this, which I use in my work!
__________________
Regards, Ben. |
15th Mar 2017, 12:37 pm | #10 | |
Octode
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Bletchley, Buckinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 1,219
|
Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
Quote:
Following the rise of globalisation and multinational corporations, call centres and software engineers may be located anywhere in the world. Added to that, widespread international migration means the local workforce (and the customers) can't be guaranteed to use the "standard" pronounciation of a language that is easily understood by native speakers. |
|
15th Mar 2017, 12:43 pm | #11 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK.
Posts: 3,687
|
Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
The Phonetic Alphabet is worth it for Ss, Fs, Bs and Vs alone. I propose a 'northern' version.
A = 'Appen B = By Gum C = Cracking E = Eeeee ..... T = Tripe W = Whippet ...
__________________
Regds, Russell W. B. G4YLI. |
15th Mar 2017, 12:54 pm | #12 |
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 27,947
|
Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
The general public is more aware of the Nato phonetic alphabet because of police procedurals and medical shows on TV, but I think call centre staff are often prompted to confirm things like postcodes and registration numbers using phonetics by their computer systems. They don't have to learn the alphabet themselves (though obviously most soon become familiar with it).
|
15th Mar 2017, 2:06 pm | #13 |
Octode
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Co. Durham, UK.
Posts: 1,117
|
Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
It originally became popular among 'aren't-I-clever' types, also known as the 'thirteen-o'clock brigade'.
They were the same people who went around saying 'Ten-Four', like Broderick Crawford. |
15th Mar 2017, 3:46 pm | #14 |
Nonode
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Resolven, Wales; and Bristol, England
Posts: 2,608
|
Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
"Thirteen o'clock brigade? Is that some north-eastern thing?
AFAIK "ten-four" used to be amongst the CB-ers, the ones who gave up when 27MHz became a legal CB frequency.
__________________
Richard Index: recursive loop: see recursive loop Last edited by mole42uk; 15th Mar 2017 at 4:09 pm. |
15th Mar 2017, 3:51 pm | #15 |
Pentode
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Hucknall, Nottinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 223
|
Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
I got beasted for saying "Unicorn" instead of "Uniform" on a regimental net, the Sergeant-Major was not amused, he had no sense of humour...
|
15th Mar 2017, 4:25 pm | #16 | |
Octode
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wimbledon, London, UK.
Posts: 1,465
|
Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
Quote:
I work occasionally in Security and have learned the NATO alphabet, but even this has variations, such as "I" normally being "India" but it can be "Indigo". I learned it by working out how car registration-plates would work out while driving around. Something I have found out the hard way is to not pronounce numerals the US way, often putting an "er" at the end (e.g. niner). This causes confusion sometimes. There are also some words which should not be used over a radio, due to specific meaning. In military terms, the use of "repeat" is an instruction to artillery to place the next lot of shells in the same place as the last; you can imagine that the use of "repeat" to mean "say that again" could cause many friendly fire casualties. The acceptable phrase is "I say again". Oh dear, I think I have probably drifted off topic, or "Oscar Tango". Colin. |
|
15th Mar 2017, 4:41 pm | #17 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK
Posts: 6,127
|
Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
Quote:
A for 'orses B for mutton C for yerself...
__________________
Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley) |
|
15th Mar 2017, 6:20 pm | #18 |
Rest in Peace
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hexham, Northumberland, UK.
Posts: 2,234
|
Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
I love the regional phonetic alphabets. Now you've got me thinking. I will have to concoct a Geordie version. Regarding radio-speak influenced by films, TV etc. One of my pet hates at work (where you are meant to use "real" radio procedure) is people who say "Roger that", and of course "Over and out" It's not Hill Street Blues, or Black Hawk Down, it's the UK! Apologies for wandering off topic.
Alan. |
15th Mar 2017, 8:46 pm | #19 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 4,748
|
Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
I encounter the standard NATO alphabet more frequently when speaking to call centre operators than when in QSOs with other radio hams!
When they ask for my initials and I say "P.N", when they ask "Is that P for Papa, N for November?" I reply "No; P for Philip, N for Nigel..." I particularly dislike pointless non-NATO alternatives like the ones mentioned earlier, particularly on the amateur bands. They are annoyingly commonly heard on the HF bands and they serve to confuse rather than clarify. That said, I'd love to find the full version of the joke phonetic alphabet that starts "A for 'orses, B for Mutton, C for lookin'..." and includes such other notables as I-falutin', O for the wings of a dove, P for relief, Q for a bus, R for sixpence, T for two, and X for breakfast!
__________________
Phil Optimist [n]: One who is not in possession of the full facts |
15th Mar 2017, 8:58 pm | #20 |
Retired Dormant Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Shropshire, UK.
Posts: 3,051
|
Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
I frequently use the telephone at work, on a highly multiplexed VOIP network. The voice reproduction at times is explanation enough for why the NATO alphabet is frequently used in call centres.
|