Triang Children's Record Player - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

JacobTheFox · 13th Sep 2017, 2:37 pm

Hello everyone! I recently signed up here to ask for help with this project. Anyway, without getting off topic, here I go.

I found this old record player in my grandfathers museum (He's a collector of pretty much anything and everything) and I found this broken, beaten up record player. It might be a lost cause because the damage looks pretty extensive (internally).

I couldn't find anything about this on the internet anywhere, so I thought I'd ask here to see if anyone knew what repairs are needed. I have attached some pictures which shows the board of some sort and the main mechanism.

Thanks in advance!

roffe · 14th Sep 2017, 9:53 pm

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=16054

llama · 15th Sep 2017, 10:10 am

Can't see any reason why you shouldn't fix it. Maybe it was dismantled as a start to restoration and then "life" got in the way.

What are your soldering and multimeter skills like?

Step-by-step, plenty of help available here. Welcome BTW!
Graham

Station X · 15th Sep 2017, 12:58 pm

Picture 4 here shows where all the wires go, but I suspect it was dismantled because the amp was faulty.

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...7&postcount=29

JacobTheFox · 15th Sep 2017, 2:17 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by llama

What are your soldering and multimeter skills like?

My soldering skills I'd consider "decent" I have an iron and solder. I don't actually have a Multimeter, but I know a place near me that I could borrow one from.

And thanks for the welcome!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Station X

Picture 4 here shows where all the wires go, but I suspect it was dismantled because the amp was faulty.

Alright, awesome. At least I know where the wires go now. I'm a still quite new at restoration of these kinds of things. Also, where is the amp? Know what it does, don't know where it is or looks like haha.

Station X · 15th Sep 2017, 2:47 pm

"Amp" is short for "Amplifier".

In this case it's the Printed Circuit Board (PCB), the oblong bit in picture 2.

JacobTheFox · 15th Sep 2017, 2:53 pm

Yeah I knew what amp means, and okay. Would you recommend I buy a new one (if I can) before restoring it? Is there some way to check if it's working? Or should I fix it before replacing it (if it needs replacement)

dazzlevision · 15th Sep 2017, 2:54 pm

Hello,

Those white plastic cased "Hunts" electrolytic capacitors are likely to be faulty after all these years. They can be replaced very cheaply with modern equivalents (which will be much smaller).

Scimitar · 15th Sep 2017, 5:52 pm

Treat yourself to a multimeter. Budget ones will be adequate until you find an excuse to upgrade!

Techman · 15th Sep 2017, 6:13 pm

I would advise thoroughly reading through the thread that has been linked to in the first reply in this thread as you will see that there are possible problems with the biasing conditions with this original amplifier which may be down to bad design when originally manufactured.

Peter88gate · 15th Sep 2017, 6:18 pm

And I would also check the condition of the stylus & cartridge since they seem to be very non-standard and made of unobtanium! That plus the amplifier makes it very unlikely to be worthwhile spending much time on it.

Peter

ms660 · 15th Sep 2017, 6:20 pm

Don't forget to remove that potential solder splat/blob short on the component side before applying any power...

Lawrence.

llama · 15th Sep 2017, 7:07 pm

You can check the amp is working with it outside the box. Personally, I would replace the electrolytics first (cost: a few pennies or less...) and apply power so you can measure the volts about the amp. Check the mid-point of the output pair of transistors. If everything seems in order you can connect a speaker and touching the input you should hear a buzz. At this stage I'd say you'll be very lucky to get that far but we can talk you through it. A multimeter good enough for this and many other jobs should cost well under a tenner. Even QD had them a while ago.

If this is a labour of love or interest or intrigue then obvs you can't count your time in the equation as to whether it's "worth" doing. Most of us here spend far longer on a repair or restoration than could be justified by resale value but we do it out of interest and an objection to the throwaway society.
Graham

JacobTheFox · 15th Sep 2017, 7:35 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dazzlevision

Those white plastic cased "Hunts" electrolytic capacitors are likely to be faulty after all these years. They can be replaced very cheaply with modern equivalents (which will be much smaller).

Okay, well even if they are working I'll replace them then, do you have a link as to where I could buy some replacements for cheap?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter88gate

And I would also check the condition of the stylus & cartridge since they seem to be very non-standard and made of unobtanium! That plus the amplifier makes it very unlikely to be worthwhile spending much time on it.

Sorry about being a little low on knowledge about this, but what is the stylus and cartridge and how would I check the condition of them? And hey, I'm just doing this as a little project so I don't really care how much time I've spent on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ms660

Don't forget to remove that potential solder splat/blob short on the component side before applying any power...

I will indeed remove any random bits of solder before applying any power .

Quote:

Originally Posted by llama

Check the mid-point of the output pair of transistors. If everything seems in order you can connect a speaker and touching the input you should hear a buzz.

Not exactly sure what you mean by the mid-point on the output pair of transistors. How would I connect a speaker to it also?

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Audio1950 · 15th Sep 2017, 11:03 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacobTheFox

Sorry about being a little low on knowledge about this, but what is the stylus and cartridge and how would I check the condition of them? And hey, I'm just doing this as a little project so I don't really care how much time I've spent on it.

No need for apology, we all started somewhere!

The stylus is what you probably know as the "needle", and the cartridge is the bit that the "needle" is attached to. Over time, these cartridges absorb moisture and fail. As replacements are now hard to get, and extremely expensive, (£40-£50), it would indeed be wise to check that the one you have is working before progressing further. How you could test this without having another record player to try it in I don't know, but no doubt someone will come up with a way round it.

Barry

camtechman · 16th Sep 2017, 12:06 am

Not that it's going to help you with restoring this record player but just a bit of info that may interest you.

The amplifier you have is the same amplifier that Triang (Tri-Onic) used in all their "audio" products during that period.
It would seem that they designed it (or had designed for them) and so they stuck with it for the following products:

1) Tri-Onic Portable Intercom (*)
2) Tri-Onic Baby Monitor (*)
(*) Both products were identical except 1 of the 2 monitor's speakers was smaller.
3) Tri-Onic Portable Record Player

On the instructions they recommend a PP9 (or PP7) battery.

They proudly advertised: "Built In Britain by Rovex Scale Models Limited Westwood Margate"

JacobTheFox · 16th Sep 2017, 7:45 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audio1950

The stylus is what you probably know as the "needle", and the cartridge is the bit that the "needle" is attached to. Over time, these cartridges absorb moisture and fail. As replacements are now hard to get, and extremely expensive, (£40-£50), it would indeed be wise to check that the one you have is working before progressing further. How you could test this without having another record player to try it in I don't know, but no doubt someone will come up with a way round it.

Oh okay, so the part that you pick up is the cartridge and the stylus is what plays the sound. I am currently away from home so I can't take an image of it now, but if my memory serves me right I think the stylus is quite corroded (it looked pretty blue in places, and rusted), Is there any way I could clean it (if I find out it doesn't work of course)

Quote:

Originally Posted by camtechman

The amplifier you have is the same amplifier that Triang (Tri-Onic) used in all their "audio" products during that period.
It would seem that they designed it (or had designed for them) and so they stuck with it for the following products:

1) Tri-Onic Portable Intercom (*)
2) Tri-Onic Baby Monitor (*)
(*) Both products were identical except 1 of the 2 monitor's speakers was smaller.
3) Tri-Onic Portable Record Player

Ah okay, thats cool. Well if the amp is dead, if I can't find one seperatley I guess I could just try and find one of those, cheap, working and get a spare amp. And thanks for the battery recommendation.

TonyDuell · 16th Sep 2017, 11:05 am

The amplifier can almost certainly be repaired if it is faulty. The only component that would be difficult to get is that little driver transformer in the middle of the PCB, and that is unlikely to be defective.

The problem, of course, is finding out which component(s) are faulty, particularly if you don't have much experience. But I am sure people here can talk you through it.

Radio_Dave · 16th Sep 2017, 12:46 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter88gate

And I would also check the condition of the stylus & cartridge since they seem to be very non-standard and made of unobtanium! That plus the amplifier makes it very unlikely to be worthwhile spending much time on it.

I agree, I have one of these players and I could never find a replacement cartridge that would fit inside the very small headshell

David

Edward Huggins · 16th Sep 2017, 3:20 pm

Given the very limited experience as indicated by the OP in these Posts and the overall dubious build quality of this children's unit, and not overlooking the issues and cost of a cartridge if neded, I am wondering about the worthwhileabilty of this task.....I guess my experience tells me that I can forsee what the OP maybe letting himself in for.
However, if it is nothing more than a learning tool in order to allow more advanced future projects, maybe I am wrong to question this?

13th Sep 2017, 2:37 pm	#1
JacobTheFox Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Merthyr Tydfil, Wales, UK. Posts: 66	Triang Children's Record Player Hello everyone! I recently signed up here to ask for help with this project. Anyway, without getting off topic, here I go. I found this old record player in my grandfathers museum (He's a collector of pretty much anything and everything) and I found this broken, beaten up record player. It might be a lost cause because the damage looks pretty extensive (internally). I couldn't find anything about this on the internet anywhere, so I thought I'd ask here to see if anyone knew what repairs are needed. I have attached some pictures which shows the board of some sort and the main mechanism. Thanks in advance! Attached Thumbnails

14th Sep 2017, 9:53 pm	#2
roffe Hexode Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Linkoping, Sweden Posts: 493	Re: Triang Childrens Record Player https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=16054

15th Sep 2017, 10:10 am	#3
llama Octode Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St Osyth, Nr Clacton, Essex, UK. Posts: 1,482	Re: Triang Childrens Record Player Can't see any reason why you shouldn't fix it. Maybe it was dismantled as a start to restoration and then "life" got in the way. What are your soldering and multimeter skills like? Step-by-step, plenty of help available here. Welcome BTW! Graham __________________ Half my stuff is junk - trouble is, I don't know which half!

15th Sep 2017, 12:58 pm	#4
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,287	Re: Triang Children's Record Player Picture 4 here shows where all the wires go, but I suspect it was dismantled because the amp was faulty. https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...7&postcount=29 __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

15th Sep 2017, 2:47 pm	#6
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,287	Re: Triang Children's Record Player "Amp" is short for "Amplifier". In this case it's the Printed Circuit Board (PCB), the oblong bit in picture 2. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

15th Sep 2017, 2:53 pm	#7
JacobTheFox Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Merthyr Tydfil, Wales, UK. Posts: 66	Re: Triang Children's Record Player Yeah I knew what amp means, and okay. Would you recommend I buy a new one (if I can) before restoring it? Is there some way to check if it's working? Or should I fix it before replacing it (if it needs replacement)

15th Sep 2017, 2:54 pm	#8
dazzlevision Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Near Swindon, North Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 3,608	Re: Triang Children's Record Player Hello, Those white plastic cased "Hunts" electrolytic capacitors are likely to be faulty after all these years. They can be replaced very cheaply with modern equivalents (which will be much smaller).

15th Sep 2017, 5:52 pm	#9
Scimitar Heptode Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Gloucestershire, UK. Posts: 719	Re: Triang Children's Record Player Treat yourself to a multimeter. Budget ones will be adequate until you find an excuse to upgrade!

15th Sep 2017, 6:13 pm	#10
Techman Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 5,000	Re: Triang Children's Record Player I would advise thoroughly reading through the thread that has been linked to in the first reply in this thread as you will see that there are possible problems with the biasing conditions with this original amplifier which may be down to bad design when originally manufactured.

15th Sep 2017, 6:18 pm	#11
Peter88gate Tetrode Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: London, UK. Posts: 85	Re: Triang Children's Record Player And I would also check the condition of the stylus & cartridge since they seem to be very non-standard and made of unobtanium! That plus the amplifier makes it very unlikely to be worthwhile spending much time on it. Peter

15th Sep 2017, 6:20 pm	#12
ms660 Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Cornwall, UK. Posts: 13,454	Re: Triang Children's Record Player Don't forget to remove that potential solder splat/blob short on the component side before applying any power... Lawrence.

15th Sep 2017, 7:07 pm	#13
llama Octode Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St Osyth, Nr Clacton, Essex, UK. Posts: 1,482	Re: Triang Children's Record Player You can check the amp is working with it outside the box. Personally, I would replace the electrolytics first (cost: a few pennies or less...) and apply power so you can measure the volts about the amp. Check the mid-point of the output pair of transistors. If everything seems in order you can connect a speaker and touching the input you should hear a buzz. At this stage I'd say you'll be very lucky to get that far but we can talk you through it. A multimeter good enough for this and many other jobs should cost well under a tenner. Even QD had them a while ago. If this is a labour of love or interest or intrigue then obvs you can't count your time in the equation as to whether it's "worth" doing. Most of us here spend far longer on a repair or restoration than could be justified by resale value but we do it out of interest and an objection to the throwaway society. Graham __________________ Half my stuff is junk - trouble is, I don't know which half!

16th Sep 2017, 12:06 am	#16
camtechman Nonode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Milton Keynes, Bucks. UK. Posts: 2,552	Re: Triang Children's Record Player Not that it's going to help you with restoring this record player but just a bit of info that may interest you. The amplifier you have is the same amplifier that Triang (Tri-Onic) used in all their "audio" products during that period. It would seem that they designed it (or had designed for them) and so they stuck with it for the following products: 1) Tri-Onic Portable Intercom () 2) Tri-Onic Baby Monitor () () Both products were identical except 1 of the 2 monitor's speakers was smaller. 3) Tri-Onic Portable Record Player On the instructions they recommend a PP9 (or PP7) battery. They proudly advertised: "Built In Britain by Rovex Scale Models Limited Westwood Margate"* __________________ When I die, please don't let my Wife sell my collection for the amount I told her I paid for it!

16th Sep 2017, 11:05 am	#18
TonyDuell Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Biggin Hill, London, UK. Posts: 5,208	Re: Triang Children's Record Player The amplifier can almost certainly be repaired if it is faulty. The only component that would be difficult to get is that little driver transformer in the middle of the PCB, and that is unlikely to be defective. The problem, of course, is finding out which component(s) are faulty, particularly if you don't have much experience. But I am sure people here can talk you through it.

16th Sep 2017, 3:20 pm	#20
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: Triang Children's Record Player Given the very limited experience as indicated by the OP in these Posts and the overall dubious build quality of this children's unit, and not overlooking the issues and cost of a cartridge if neded, I am wondering about the worthwhileabilty of this task.....I guess my experience tells me that I can forsee what the OP maybe letting himself in for. However, if it is nothing more than a learning tool in order to allow more advanced future projects, maybe I am wrong to question this? __________________ Edward.