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Old 5th Feb 2019, 7:15 pm   #1
bill knox
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Default Yamaha CLP411 Electronic Piano

Hi All

I am not sure if this post is in the correct part of UK Vintage repair.

my grandchildren have a Yamaha CLP411 which until recently has performed very well, however, it now, when turned on makes a loud popping sound that is still there when the volume control is at minimum, to me that suggests either the output stage or the power supply.

Has anyone come across this problem on a Yamaha before, I will be contacting Yamaha tomorrow and I am quite certain that they will point me to a dealer, but I was also wondering if someone has a service manual or a circuit diagram for this model, I also wondered of there was available a service kit for this problem.

Any help would be appreciated

Bill
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Old 5th Feb 2019, 7:21 pm   #2
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: Yamaha CLP411 Electronic Piano

Service manual is apparently here over at Elekrotanya: Ignore any big green or red 'bait' buttons on the page and look down at the lower left hand side where you will see the word 'Processing'... for a few tens of seconds.

When that changes to "Download", click on that word to download it. It is a .rar archive file so you will need some sort of UNrar program to un-archive it. I have not done that, so I have no idea what the package contains. Files from Elektrotanya are normally OK.

https://elektrotanya.com/yamaha_clp-.../download.html
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Old 5th Feb 2019, 8:15 pm   #3
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Default Re: Yamaha CLP411 Electronic Piano

I noticed that my Win10 PC running Chrome browser did not seem to want to download the file, however, it downloaded OK on a Linux PC running the same browser - I've had a brief look and it contains 3 large .tiff image files (circuit diagram and layout all at a good resolution) and 2 .PDF files.

If you have difficulty downloading or accessing them yourself, PM me and I will see if I can email them over to you.
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Old 5th Feb 2019, 8:22 pm   #4
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Default Re: Yamaha CLP411 Electronic Piano

Hi Bill.

You do not state if the popping is present on bot channels, or just one.

For both channels, it will be IC3 (uPC4570). If it confined to left or right, it will be IC 4 or 5, the output devices type AN7164.

A squirt of freezer whilst the fault is there will identify the culprit.


Kevin
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 1:45 am   #5
bill knox
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Default Re: Yamaha CLP411 Electronic Piano

Hi all

Thank you for your reply's, that will give me something to go on.

What I did not make very clear is, the fault is not there all the time, when I looked at the piano this afternoon, most of the times that I tried the organ it worked fine, then all of a sudden the fault came and then disappeared, what I did not have time to do was, to see if while the fault was apparent did the piano still work. The 3 I/Cs that have been mentioned are they on the processor board or amplifier board

I have assumed that as when the fault was apparent and the volume control had no affect on the noise, that the fault is on the PSU/Amplifier board, but I also at this stage do not know where the volume control is situated, is it on the processor board or between the processor and amplifier or some where else.

I will be trying now to download SiriusHardware has given and will let you know how I get on

Bill

Last edited by bill knox; 6th Feb 2019 at 1:46 am. Reason: Incomplete
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 10:13 am   #6
bill knox
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Default Re: Yamaha CLP411 Electronic Piano

Hi All

Thanks to SiriusHardware I have downloaded the service details for the piano and now will start to investigate this intermittent "popping" noise

Bill
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 11:51 am   #7
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Default Re: Yamaha CLP411 Electronic Piano

Glad you got the diagrams OK.

Audio instability like that sounds (potentially) like a problem with a supply decoupling capacitor somewhere.

I have a Yamaha SY22 synth which developed a problem in the audio output stage and when I looked, found that three capacitors - all the same type - had leaked electrolyte which had in turn dissolved some of the PCB tracks in the local area. So keep an eye out for electrolytics with dark liquid stains or crystalline deposits around or under them.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 7:55 pm   #8
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Default Re: Yamaha CLP411 Electronic Piano

Hi Bill.

IC3 4 and 5 are on PCB PU40D2 which is slightly left of centre, next to the mains transformer.

If the popping noise is intermittent, GENTLE heat from a hair dryer should show it up quickly. Once the noise starts, a squirt of freezer will show up the culprit as the noise will instantly change or disappear.


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Old 7th Feb 2019, 11:40 am   #9
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Default Re: Yamaha CLP411 Electronic Piano

Hi All

We are going to dinner at my son's on Sunday and I will try the heat treatment, but my daughter-in-law does not want me to start repairs yet as the one of the grandchildren is practising for a piano exam so work will come to a halt for a while.

I will try the heat & freeze treatment on Sunday and also look at the electrolytic's for leakage.

I rang Yamaha yesterday and was pleasantly surprised at how helpful they were, they told me that the "avenue" that I have been advised to go down by other Forum member's was the same as their advise, they also said that major item's such as replacement board's were no longer available

Thank you for everyone's input, I will let you know as I progress

Bill
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 11:52 am   #10
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Default Re: Yamaha CLP411 Electronic Piano

Yamaha (musical instruments) are tremendous for very long term product support, one of the best examples I can think of. Unfortunately even they can't supply parts once the remaining stocks have all been used up. Good luck with the repair, once you can actually get to it that is.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 2:23 pm   #11
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Default Re: Yamaha CLP411 Electronic Piano

That's not my experience. They used to be very good but a couple of years ago they stopped dealing with non main-dealers. All spares have to be directed through an approved service centre. Mine has just taken 18 days to get back to me with a price.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 3:41 pm   #12
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Default Re: Yamaha CLP411 Electronic Piano

Sorry to hear that.

In the past I've always just phoned them up, discussed what I needed, got the part number from them if I didn't already know it and ordered the part there and then. Once, the part had to come from Yamaha Central in Japan but it was still delivered to my house.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 10:09 pm   #13
bill knox
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Default Re: Yamaha CLP411 Electronic Piano

Hi All

Right, had a look at the Yamaha and I am quite convinced that the fault is not an audio fault but a power supply problem.

With a hair dryer and an can of freezer I could not replicate the fault at all but by prodding around the RHS of the heat sink the fault could be made apparent quite easily, as I have said, my granddaughter has an exam that she is practising for on March 3rd so I will investigate further then but I am quite certain that the problem is a dry joint around the first power regulator, I will keep you informed as I go.

Bill
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 2:14 pm   #14
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Default Re: Yamaha CLP411 Electronic Piano

That's a relatively common failure mode associated with semiconductor power devices (any type) if they run warm and are regularly turned on and off, especially if they are fixed to a headsink as well as soldered to the pads of the PCB. As the component warms up, its leads expand a little and as it cools down, they contract a little. Eventually (after many years) this results in a perfectly circular ring-shaped crack in the soft solder surrounding one or more of the leads of the device.

So when you get a chance to look at the regulator, look at least twice at its solder joints on the print / track side of the PCB, or just resolder them regardless.
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Old 8th Mar 2019, 1:36 am   #15
bill knox
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Default Re: Yamaha CLP411 Electronic Piano

Hi All

Well, my Granddaughter has had her piano exam, so I took the top off the piano and then took out the audio PSU board< I could not see any dry joints as such, so I re-soldered the joints around the area where I had made the fault appear and the fault seems to have cleared, so the piano is back to fully working.
Thank you for all suggestions made and to SiriusHardware for pointing me in the direction of the software.
Thank you once again

Bill
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Old 8th Mar 2019, 6:12 am   #16
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Default Re: Yamaha CLP411 Electronic Piano

That sort of cracked solder joint can be almost invisible and not easily seen even with a microscope.

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Old 8th Mar 2019, 11:43 pm   #17
bill knox
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Default Re: Yamaha CLP411 Electronic Piano

Hi

Your right, I could not see anything even with my glasses on, so I just took an educated guess where the dry joint may be and soldered a few joints.

Bill
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