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Old 11th Apr 2019, 3:42 pm   #1
MurphyNut
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Default Can it be found how many radios were made for a particular model?

Something that has always fascinated me is knowing how many of a particular model was made. Is this kind of information long lost or can it be reasonably accurately found out from the chassis numbers or other sources.
As we know some sets seem to survive in abundance such as the Bush Dac 90a, GEC BC4650, or Murphy 146 (baffle board) yet some sets similar in price and date seem really scarce.
I often wonder is it down to numbers made or the durability of a set.
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 3:51 pm   #2
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Default Re: Can it be found how many radios were made for a particular model?

I think in the main the records are long gone and I don't think the serial numbers are a reliable indicator in most circumstances.

During the lifetime of the models sales would be closely guarded by the manufacturers.

Occasionally you would see a claim by a manufacturer such as Cossor claiming more than £250,000 Melody Makers in daily use made in the early 1930's but that covered by that time about 8 models.

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Old 11th Apr 2019, 4:58 pm   #3
Mike. Watterson
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Default Re: Can it be found how many radios were made for a particular model?

Analysing serial numbers: The German Tank Problem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_tank_problem

The more serial numbers you have, better an estimate you can make. However serial numbers may start at 100,000 or whatever. They might encode the year or year and week. A larger collection of serial numbers can answer those questions.
Some models are inherently likely to have had low sales due to cost, onset of war, shortages or features (an AM only radiogram vs AM/FM set without gram in UK 1955 to 1970, only BBC simulcast on VHF). Poor performance (1946 to 1949 "Personal Sets, not enough signal in daytime UK for small loop).
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 5:32 pm   #4
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Default Re: Can it be found how many radios were made for a particular model?

I believe some manufacturers may have just incremented serial numbers onto any new models they bought out.

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Old 11th Apr 2019, 5:53 pm   #5
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Default Re: Can it be found how many radios were made for a particular model?

Serial number practices vary a lot, both between manufacturers and for particular manufacturers over time. At the Hacker and Roberts groups we've gathered many hundreds of numbers, and it soon became apparent both that each company often started a number sequence at something other than 1, frequently it seemed a round number in the low thousands: and that sequences often leapt ahead leaving gaps of unissued numbers. Sometimes the case seems fairly straightforward, for instance with the late Hacker Windsor RM79 where our six serial numbers range from 60001 to 60127: I've little doubt that at least 127 sets were made, but it seems unlikely that there were many more than 140-150. With other models the evidence can be harder to read with confidence, but given 50 or more serial numbers, as we have for some of the more popular models, plausible estimates at least can be arrived at.

Perhaps the most popular British set of all time, the Bush DAC90A, is one where evidence is abundant but as far as I know nobody has yet tried to collate it. I've seen reports of 90As with serial numbers well below 100 - until recently 00063 was in my own collection - and, while I've noticed several in the vicinity of 230000, I don't think I've seen any as high as 235000, certainly not 240000. On that basis it seems very plausible to me that 230000 or so DAC90As were produced: almost certainly, I'd say, not many more than that; but it could be that gaps in the number sequence disguise a true production figure that was somewhat lower.

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Old 15th Apr 2019, 2:11 pm   #6
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Default Re: Can it be found how many radios were made for a particular model?

It looks like trying to find the number made is shrouded in mystery and lost in the past. I guess the only way we might know is if documents from a said radio manufacture turns up with information on such matters, highly unlikely I think.
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Old 15th Apr 2019, 6:42 pm   #7
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Default Re: Can it be found how many radios were made for a particular model?

Some of the serial numbering schemes shed no real light on this, sadly.

In my collection, peacefully awaiting resurrection, an Ekco A22. The information gathered suggests it's an earlier model. Brown bakelite, copper 'speaker surround, Droitwich on the dial, serial number 2244, yet the Philco 333 & 444 both begin D, with 5 digits to follow. Would the D be a revision number? I can believe these were made in large numbers, judging by the factory photo found online.

The only sets that could lay claim to short productions runs would be my Retrovisor RRT1950, serial number 8003, Steve (Panrock) would be able to tell a bit more.

The set in my avatar, serial number 0001. But don't be too excited, it's something I made a while back.

I often wonder how many Ferranti vs Ekco sets were made, U1003 vs U319 for example.

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Old 15th Apr 2019, 8:13 pm   #8
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Default Re: Can it be found how many radios were made for a particular model?

For what it's worth, my guess would be around 8000-10000 apiece for the A22 and Philco 444: probably because I've met something like two dozen DAC90As for every example of each that's come to my notice. I would expect rather fewer, maybe 1500-2000, for harder to find bakelite models such as the Defiant M900. About 10000 or so for each of Murphy's standard mid-'30s models (A4, A24, A26, A30)?

Our Retrovisor is 9034, not, of course, a thousand or so sets later than yours...

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