PIC SC/MP PICLV2 upgrade?

[Paul_G3WYW]

Split from this thread:-

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=215623

Hi,

HNY to all.

I have a PIC SC/MP PICLV2 from Phil_G with Kitbug+ and NIBL. I'm confused about how to update the hardware to the new PICLV3 and latest KitBug++.

My PICLV2 runs at 9600 8N1 and I have to add char and line delays to load both Basic and hex files.

I see that there are two verions of Kitbug available to download 1200 and 2400 baud, but not sure how to download them into the PICL?

I thought that the SCMP Kitbug code was stored in the Dallas Static RAM chip, but now I'm not sure? Phil send me a patch to modify the D command to print 16 lines instead of just 8 (M2F32 from 08 to 10 ), which works but doesnt survive a power or reset cycle. If it was stored in the NVRAM I'd have thought it would be saved, but it gets reset to 08 every time.

Is there a step-by-step instruction set for upgrading the PICLV2 board to the latest SCMP PIC emulator and what I call Phils's latest Kitbug++?

I cut my teeth in microprocessors as a mature student at Hull Technical College in the late '70s on the SC/MP introkit board. It has always been my favourite processor.

I have a real INS8060 that seems to work, clock runs and Addr lines toggle with 1K resistors pulling data lines to NOP. Waiting for the Arduino Processor Emulator board to arrive from the USA to check it out before building a real one again.

Paul

[Phil__G]

Hi Paul, I dont know (or dont remember!) a PICLv3? Is it Mikes 16F18877 adaptation of the PICLv2?
The PICL version of KitbugPlus is different, it has to run in high memory as NIBL is in page zero. Expanding KB+ would mean relocating it to make room and in an 8k system theres not a lot to be gained, page 1 free memory would be very much reduced. Also many of the later KB+ additions use features which arent available or arent feasible in the emulation.
All the recent additions to KitbugPlus have been to the native (address 0000) version for 'real' scamps like the MGH8060GAL thats been a popular build on here - these have plenty of memory with a full 4k of page zero available for KB+.

Yet another alternative is Karens most recent PIC16F877 SC/MP emulation which, lacking a name, I dubbed the 'KO2019'. This has 32k ram and runs 'real' NIBL in page zero. Consequently it doesnt run KB+ but instead I've included a capable BASYS monitor in the package. The KO2019 is similar in many ways to the PICL but the extra memory over the PICL's two pages really does transform it. Personally this is my favourite of all Karens SC/MP machines: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=209704

I think if you've reached the limitations of the PICL you should treat yourself to a 'real' SC/MP build and I (and others, I'm sure) would highly recommend the Kris Sekula MGH8060GAL, it has everything
https://www.mccrash-racing.co.uk/philg/scmp/scmp.htm#mgh8060gal
Cheers Paul
Phil

[nlpe1goo]

Hi,
As you could read in my own thread I've made a new board out of the 32k version from, Philg. I've kitbug+ running at 0x7c00 using the I/O routines from the nibl rom. I made a new Nibl kitbug+ load program based on the one used by Philg that installs my version at 0x7c00. It works flawless. This program runs at PAGE2 only. I've included my version that runs on the 32K version. It doesn't include a bin-loader... minicom doesn't support this. I'm busy with an Intel hex loader. Here the link to my project on hackaday.: https://hackaday.io/project/202124-scamp-in-a-pic-based-on-the-design-of-k-orton
Here you can find the gerberfile for the PCB also.

[Paul_G3WYW]

Hi Phil,
Thanks for the reply. My confusion!. I called the changes you had done to the PICLV2 emulation ( Fixed DLY and 1200Baud Fast Load with SA ?) as PICLV3.

I'm still a bit confued about the PICL2 Memory map. It has an 8K Static ram chip that has 2 x 4K pages from $1000 - 1FFF and $2000 - 2FFF and the NIBL ROM emulated in the PIC Code, presumably at $000 - 0FFF. Where is the Kitbug+ code? I was hoping I could just replace the existing Kitbug by the new one adjusting the start address accoringly. The chips came preprogrammed from you with the PICLV2 PCB.
I cant see where the boot message with "COLD WARM and Kitbug+" selection comes from?

Thanks for the pointers the KO2019 design et al. More reading! As you say the MGH8060GAL has everything.

BR Paul

[ortek_service]

Originally Posted by Paul_G3WYW

>>
>>

I cut my teeth in microprocessors as a mature student at Hull Technical College in the late '70s on the SC/MP introkit board. It has always been my favourite processor.

I have a real INS8060 that seems to work, clock runs and Addr lines toggle with 1K resistors pulling data lines to NOP. Waiting for the Arduino Processor Emulator board to arrive from the USA to check it out before building a real one again.

Paul

Nice to hear of someone using the Introkit, back in the day
- after I finally recently got-working, the faulty one I'd picked-up some decades ago before I knew anything about the SC/MP or MK14 etc.

Although it does use the original, slower, PMOS ISP-8A/500D ceramic-only DIL40 package version
- rather than the later NMOS INS8060(D/N) (aka ISP-8A/600(D/N) SC/MP-II) you mention you have.

Originally Posted by Phil__G

>>
>>
>>
All the recent additions to KitbugPlus have been to the native (address 0000) version for 'real' scamps like the MGH8060GAL thats been a popular build on here - these have plenty of memory with a full 4k of page zero available for KB+.
>>
>>
>>

I think if you've reached the limitations of the PICL you should treat yourself to a 'real' SC/MP build and I (and others, I'm sure) would highly recommend the Kris Sekula MGH8060GAL, it has everything
https://www.mccrash-racing.co.uk/philg/scmp/scmp.htm#mgh8060gal
Cheers Paul
Phil

Yes, the MGH8060GAL board would be a low-cost way of testing / using an INS8060 (by far the most expensive part, now that even used ones of these often cost around £40! So good to already have one, that hopefully works OK).
I built the Kris Sekula's (My Geeky Hobby) original MGH8060 PCB (that was a corrected version of Ronald Dekker's original SC/MP system design) non-GAL version, mod-ed with Ian's use of a GAL to replace the original logic
Then I added some further enhancements to the GAL etc, to make it very-close (as practically feasible on existing PCB) to the later MGH8060GAL version (where Kris had now incorporated Ian's etc original GAL mods, plus some other additions into a larger pin-count GAL).


A slightly-simpler / even lower-cost alternative, is to use the Martin Lukasek MK14 RAM (& EEPROM Alternative to original Bi-PROM's) board https://www.8bity.cz/2018/science-of-cambridge-mk14-1536b-ram-expansion/ - by itself, with an added crystal + serial connections to a USB-UART that Phil_G had prototyped and originally ran KitBug+ on.

And which Kris Sekula then did an updated PCB for, incorporating this option: https://www.pcbway.com/project/shareproject/Sinclair_MK14_co...OM_RAM_Kitbug_adapter_a7798ec1.html
- I also built a couple of these, but I've only used the original design, with the on-board crystal, in a full MK14 system so far.

[Phil__G]

Hi Paul ok I'm with you now, you have the PIC16F18877 version. The PIC flash retains a permanent copy of KB+ which it copies into NVRAM at 2C00 hex. Its a convoluted process to reprogram the 18877 so if you want I can swap your chip for one with the 16 line dump if you like.

Originally Posted by Paul_G3WYW

I cant see where the boot message with "COLD WARM and Kitbug+" selection comes from?

Thats all part of the PIC assembler code Paul, it runs before the emulation starts.

Originally Posted by Paul_G3WYW

I'm still a bit confued about the PICL2 Memory map. It has an 8K Static ram chip that has 2 x 4K pages from $1000 - 1FFF and $2000 - 2FFF and the NIBL ROM emulated in the PIC Code, presumably at $000 - 0FFF. Where is the Kitbug+ code?

Yes exactly. Page 0 (0000-0FFF) is NIBL addressed within the PIC flash. Page 1 is (1000-1FFF) in the top half of the 8k NVRAM and page 2 is (2000-2FFF) in the bottom half of the NVRAM - note that if you read the NVRAM in a programmer you'll find Karen swapped page 1 & 2 in RAM, I never did work out if that was intentional, maybe it was for code economy somewhere.

However...
I've just checked and found my 'Karen' page on https://philg.uk has reverted to a very old copy.
Might take a couple of days to straighten out the mess, but asap!

Cheers
Phil

[Phil__G]

Its all restored again now, PICLv2 etc is all there, eg the KO2019: https://www.mccrash-racing.co.uk/philg/picl/picl.htm#ko2019

[Phil__G]

Paul, yesterday I sent you a replacement 18877 with the current PICL code (so did we call the 18877 version PICLv3? - I dont remember) with your 16-line D command, and a 22v10 gal for your MGH8060GAL. All being well should arrive tomorrow.
Cheers
Phil

[Paul_G3WYW]

Hi Phil,

Thanks, much appreciated. The PIC’8877 is due this weekend, and the PCBs are due next Wednesday. I’ll post the board and chip,when I’ve got them.

Wondering what sort of box to mount the PCB into.

BR Paul

[Paul_G3WYW]

Hi Phil,
Thanks for the PIC and GAL that arrived today.
The replacement chip works fine with my PICL board, but i had to use a different CH340 USB TTL board as that one died as well. I'm thinking that maybe I zapped the PIC processor in taking it out to put in the TL866 programmer.

My replacement PiC 18877 is due next week along with the PCBs from China, so I'll post back to you when received.

Many thanks again. Much appreciated.
73 Paul G3WYW

[Phil__G]

PIC chips are remarkably durable Paul, very tolerant to mishandling, could it have been a power supply problem? especially if the CH340G went too? Not to worry as long as its working again