MK14 - Originally meant to be rather smaller / squarer?

[ortek_service]

Originally Posted by Timbucus

Yes that was the first advert probably because Clive used to be the editor and of course the Scrumpi was heavily advertised in other magazines like ETI and PCW so he perhaps hoped to catch a different audience. I have always thought the advertised price was suspiciously slightly lower than Scrumpi II which was around £55 by then.

I didn't think Clive Sinclair was ever the Editor of Wireless World, but actually Practical Wireless (Where it seems he was briefly, at age of 18, after original Editor & deputy had health issues) - According to this publication I haven't seen before:
https://www.worldradiohistory.com/BOOKSHELF-ARH/Technology/A...e-Sinclair-Story-Clive-Sinclair.pdf

- Which lists all the books he wrote (I've managed to pick up a few from Radio Rallies over the years).
And this also has a chapter on the MK14, so will no doubt be of interest to see what 'undiscovered facts' may be there.

(There is also mention of an Acorn 'System 75' that they say was a predecessor to the Atom. Whereas Acorn 'Systems' were actually during + after, as well as before the time of the Atom. But there has been rumours that there was an SC/MP based Acorn System (75?), although that does seem unlikely if the System 1 CPU board was based on Sophie Wilson's original 6502-based cattle feeder project).

It seems from what others have found that MK14 adverts only appeared in various Electronics Magazines, after these adverts had appeared in the first ('Feb') 1978 PCW issue - So the earliest one to be known about so far, and none yet found in 1977?

[Timbucus]

Ah yes my mistake it was Practical Wireless (I blame Covid brain fog) he was editor of and indeed I believed that PW 1978 Feb (The one with the economy Timing Strobe) was the first advert for MK14 - the same small board version - it was certainly where I would have seen it as we had (Still do) that issue.

The first PCW was in February so it does seem they were simultaneous. Again supports the theory he was avoiding where the Scrumpi was being advertised. I have never seen an earlier advert but, as you say they would have been placed likely in December 1977 and it looks likely before they had a finished design to draw

[ortek_service]

So it would seem quite fortuitous that PCW was launched at exactly the same time that the MK14 was first being advertised.
- If PW Feb 1978 issue was the only other place it was advertised at the time

Although I'd have thought that Practical Electronics would have made more sense (Particularly as they went on to do some MK14 projects inc a VDU?)
- Unless the SCRUMPI was being advertised there and they didn't want to compete against that (even if, originally, that lacked a monitor in memory and only had LED's + toggle switches like the Newbear 77-68(00))

[Realtime]

I came across what seems to be the first mention of the MK14 in Practical Electronics - Apr 1978 (p607) - where they list kits for various popular processors. Also of note is the mention of the SCRUMPI 3 kit at £155. Quite expensive compared to the other SC/MP offerings.

Science of Cambridge had an advert for their wrist calculator in the March 1978 edition, which shows they were actively advertising in Practical Electronics, just not the MK14.

The full MK14 advert then appears in the May 1978 issue.

[ortek_service]

Originally Posted by Realtime

I came across what seems to be the first mention of the MK14 in Practical Electronics - Apr 1978 (p607) - where they list kits for various popular processors. Also of note is the mention of the SCRUMPI 3 kit at £155. Quite expensive compared to the other SC/MP offerings.
>>
>>

Thanks for posting that, which I don't recall seeing before.

The MK14 kit is rather a bargain at under £40, compared to even the SCRUMPI-1 that cost more but did less.

Although the much-more expensive SCRUMPI-3, seems to be rather-better than the MK14, coming with a proper cased Keyboard (Although still not full ASCII) and also a VDU Interface.

I note that PE article doesn't list the SCRUMPI-2, which it seems is the same as the SCRUMPI-1, but instead uses the NMOS SC/MP-2.
And there was also the option to have a (Monitor?) PROM, for a bit more (but still limited to using toggle-switches & LED's for display)

By (ETI) June 1978, Bywood weren't featuring the SCRUMPI-1 that prominently, even though it was still £10 less than the basic SCRUMPI-2
(Strange when the SC/MP-2 IC cost a bit less than the original SC/MP-1 in Bywood's advert)
https://nosher.net/archives/computers/electronics_today_1978-06_002 (Also attached a copy of that image, as a JPEG+Zipped)

The NS Introkit was certainly not as good a deal compared to the MK14.
- As the (Calculator cased) Keyboard & Display + a few logic IC's upgrade kit doubled the Introkit price to a total price that was three times the MK14!
(Although still less than half that of the "Low Cost Dev. System", that Bywood also listed in the ETI June 1978 advert).

[SiriusHardware]

I confess I've been quite puzzled by references to the idea of Science Of Cambridge trying to 'avoid' advertising in the same magazine issues as Bywood - SOC's adverts were vastly more professional than the early Bywoods ads with their cartoony 'Wurzel' character, and the MK14 did more for less money, so SOC had little to fear from a direct side by side comparison / confrontation.

[ortek_service]

I think the Introkit was maybe more of a competitor to the MK14, being basically the same design (although the original design Introkit only ran at half the speed, using the older PMOS SC/MP).
But SoC were rather under-cutting NS prices, so I'd have thought if anything NS might not have wanted SoC to advertise in the same place!

However, I suspect NS weren't as interested in the hobbyist market, and the Introkit was really a development system for Engineers at companies who could afford it (and the 'Low Cost Dev. System), in order for NS to sell SC/MP IC's to these companies for use in their own systems.

Although I was quite surprised that the Introkit & LCDS was being sold via the more hobbyist companies in these magazines. As I originally presumed these were mainly sold in the USA, and weren't that widely sold over here.

[SiriusHardware]

I recall seeing an unbuilt baseline (serial) Introkit and a built Introkit + keypad + display in a display case at TMNOC (Bletchley) and had assumed by default that they were donated by UK owners - however they may well have been donated from over the pond.

There's a well known video by 'curiousmarc' in which he fixes his original Introkit + Keypad + Display, but I am uncertain as to his real-world location, don't know whether he is in the USA or in Europe. 'Marc' sounds potentially French, or possibly French-Canadian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fK-IZuIonnY

I certainly wasn't aware, back in the late seventies, of either the Introkit or the LCDS - the latter especially would have been way out of my reach as most such dev systems were at the time. I have to say this was a good example of advertising succeeding in its aim - I saw an ad for the MK14 and immediately wanted one. No-one else who made anything affordable managed to get my attention in the same way.

[ortek_service]

Well from these recently unearthed SC/MP systems summary article + adverts, it seems that at least two places in the UK sold the Introkit amongst others.

So I guess a fair amount were sold directly in the UK, and might still exist (Although the Introkit I bought from a Radio Rally around 25years ago is the only time I've seen anything like that being sold at one despite going to >10 a year for over 30years).

It's just maybe back then that many didn't know what these were if they just had one line in an advert and no pictures / spec's, without a feature on them in the magazines - In times way before the 'net.

I do recall getting a Marshsalls catalogue back in late 1980 (with a red front cover, free with Everyday Electronics?) that I should still have. I don't recall seeing any pictures of these computer system's in there, but maybe there was much-more info than in small magazine adverts (Although these may well have been discontinued by the middle of 1980, with the advent of more-advanced ones).
Maybe there's even a scan of a Marshalls Catalogue online somewhere.

[ortek_service]

It does seem that USA Magazine adverts were rather-more descriptive of the Introkit
- Including photos as well as text on the main board and also the Keyboard 'upgrade' kit.

With this being featured in Apr 1977 of Byte (USA version) magazine, as shown on: https://nosher.net/archives/computers/electronics_today_1978-06_002
And direct image-link (Plus saved-copy, attached): https://static.nosher.net/archives/computers/images/scamp_byte_apr77.webp

Where the $95 for each part, was equivalent to £55 each in 1977 (When £1 was approx $1.70), before any additional VAT / Sales Tax.

[Phil__G]

If anyone is feeling exceptionally flush, there's a complete, unbuilt MK14 kit going on the FB group. Exceptionally flush as in three grand. You read that correctly!

[SiriusHardware]

Almost makes mw wish I had never built mine. (Almost...)

If someone gifted that to you, what would you do with it? I can't imagine anything more pointless or useless than an unbuilt kit. I would have to build it and make it work, as nature intended.

[Phil__G]

Collectors go mad for unbuilt, original kits. Utterly pointless. Thankfully I'm not a collector! At £3k we can only dream, but yes, as a gift - I'd have to build it
...and I'd throw the box away...

[SiriusHardware]

Someone here had an unbuilt MK14 VDU and managed the best of both worlds by buying a replica PCB to put the original chips in (in sockets) along with a duplicate set of passive components so he could both build it / use it and preserve the originality of the kit. I suppose that's the way to do it here as well, as there are several decent replica MK14 PCBs to choose from now.

One thing I would do first if I had an unbuilt original machine is to make meticulous scans of the unpopulated PCB, especially if it was an issue V.

[Timbucus]

I think that must be the same one that has been on the bay for years - it is a lot of money for an unbuilt kit, really only a museum piece. So much as I would like to build it I would not for that reason.

Just out of interest a part of the recent Rubber Keyed Wonder movie and an extended version in one of the shorts included with it is a well filmed 'build' of an MK14 kit by Sandy White (of Ant attack fame) who of course was a big fan and also used the SC/MP based SOFTY 1 to create the game hooked up to his Spectrum.

He recently kindly gifted me some cut cardboard that forms into a box for my unassembled MK14 I keep around as a repro Kit to show people. So that will do me.

[ortek_service]

Yes, slightly-ironic that computer kits originally cost rather-less than ready built (Although IIRC, the MK14 was only available as a kit, unlike the ZX80/81 etc.)

At that price, then maybe people could be tempted to "de-construct" an original MK14 back to a kit. But you'd have to source identical vintage NOS leaded parts, that had been soldered-to / wires cut short. As well as remove all added-solder from the PCB. Plus re-find all the original packaging / box etc, that's probably now the rarest part (Like with toys from decades ago).

Maybe there could be a market in reproduction replica-kits, for collectors who don't want to actually build or use these.
But then, unlike for most of us actual users of these, no doubt only an original would do for that!
Whereas it was because the price of used original built MK14's got so high, that so many (often improved) replicas are now around.

[Phil__G]

I dont think of my two Slothies as 'replicas' really, to me they're both MK14s in every way other than that the source of parts wasnt SoC
The pleasure of assembling them and the joy of "0000 00" when first switched on was every bit as good as it would have been in 1979!
IIRC (and I may not) you would source your own IC sockets back then so your completed MK14 wasnt 100% SoC anyway!

[ortek_service]

Well a lot of the IC's will have been from that era - especially if you've got a good collection of vintage logic IC's, to find appropriate date-coded ones from. So can often manage to have ones made from back in the days of the MK14.

So it's mainly the PCB that won't be an original (Will probably actually be better-quality these days! - With advancements in PCB-Manufacture and apparently China now making the World's leading equipment for this). Although may now struggle to get one without any solder-resist...

Yes, I do believe they didn't supply any IC sockets to cut costs - even though they were recommended. And I expect there were a few impatient or cost-conscious constructors who directly soldered the IC's in (Possibly regretting that afterwards).
And I'm not sure if the higher-quality turned-pin ones were that common back then. So I like to use some ones that look like the classic TI low-profile ones (even though some of these had reliability issues), particularly as I luckily some year ago bought a large box of tubes of various sizes surplus NOS Augat & Robinson Nugent etc ones that look quite period compared to more-modern folded 'Dual-wipe' exposed contacts ones.

[SiriusHardware]

And I expect there were a few impatient or cost-conscious constructors who directly soldered the IC's in (Possibly regretting that afterwards).

Yes, that was me. None of the 18 pin ICs (including the 4 x RAM) are in sockets in my original issue II MK14. I didn't have any to hand and I had already waited for months for the kit to arrive.

Nowadays I don't do any work on it that is not absolutely necessary - the bond between the semi transparent fibre glass PCB and the PCB tracks / pads is not that strong or heat resistant.

[SiriusHardware]

...and I'd throw the box away...

That I wouldn't do because it is part of the provenance / history of the machine - I'd keep the built machine in the box, as I think I originally did with mine until I started to build it into various different enclosures, at which point the box went the distance.

I think the box usually had the stamp or frank and postmark directly on the sleeve so with any luck there will be a posting date on it.