Marx kid's gramophone/ record players

[Martin Bush]

Hi all

I came across something I'd not seen before recently and wondered if anyone could tell me a little more.

The item is the Marx children's record player which looks to me like a small plastic gramophone that may play 45s - I could be wrong.

There seem to be a few available for not too much money and I thought owning one might be amusing. I know they will not give high quality sound or be kind to records, but they look like fun.

Does anyone know more about their operation? They look like they use a gramophone needle but play vinyl discs.

I have a real gramophones and record decks so this would purely be a fun item if I did get one.

Martin

[Station X]

These were acoustic machines with a sound box. The batteries only powered the turntable. I believe they worked at 78 RPM to give a reasonable output level.

[Martin Bush]

Thanks Graham. For the price it may be worth a punt on a working one I think. I've since looked at some of the discs and found that they are indeed 78rpm.

[Martin Bush]

Well, I just bought one that needs slight attention. It didn't cost much so not much to lose.

Does anyone know the type of needle that would be appropriate? I have some soft tone gramophone needles or should I be looking for something a little lighter?

[newlite4]

Any standard gramophone needle would be suitable. I have had a few of these. They were made at the LUMAR plant at Swansea. I always fancied them when I was a kid, but when I managed to get some fifty years later, they were plagued with corroded terminals and contacts. Once up and running they work fairly well, there is even a resistive speed control to compensate for battery run-down.
Neil

[Martin Bush]

Thanks Neil.

I think, but am not certain, that the records are vinyl. Is that right or could they also play standard 78s too (which would be a fair bit heavier).

[Stuart R]

The kids don't look too impressed here.....

We never had the record player, but somehow ended up with a few of the 'My Record' vinyl 78s in our childhood collection, I seem to remember one had a really poorly trimmed outer edge with a raised lip.

One of our records had the 'Sound of Music' on one side and 'My Favourite Things' on the other. It must be still here somewhere, I'll keep an eye out for it.

(Pictures taken from Google images, hope that's OK)

SR

[Martin Bush]

It looks like one of the kids there is adding to the tracking weight...

I have one of those players and some discs on their way to me so I will report back. The whole lot cost me a out £20 so it will be a bit of fun for not much outlay.

I'm still nervous about playing vinyl with a steel needle

[Sideband]

The one I had when I was around 7 or 8 years old played records called 'Kidditunes' available from the local toyshop. Typical titles being nursery rhymes but a few music records as well. Actually it did play ordinary 78's as we still had some. One was Teddy Bear by Elvis Presley and the other was Be Bop A Lula by Gene Vincent. I remember the long run-out groove on that and watching the soundbox bobbing backwards and forwards at the very end. I should have kept that 78. It might have been worth something by now....

[jamesperrett]

We had one of those with a small collection of Kidditunes records with yellow labels which looked like they were made from vinyl. We used the same needles as we used on the big gramophone which were probably safe for the vinyl records because everything was plastic so the tracking force was much less than a normal gramophone.

The one song I remember playing on it was "Here we go looby loo".

[Martin Bush]

I've just received a set of discs and I was almost disappointed to find that they are in excellent condition!

I was expecting them to be mucky and beaten up due to being kid''s discs, but I'm now worried about playing them on the gramophone when it arrives

[Sideband]

I wonder what those discs sound like on a normal record player or even a decent deck and hi fi system?

[af024]

They sound ok, but lacking in bass. Perhaps that was by design because the Marx/Lumar gramophone arm could very easily skate across with little provocation.

Yes the battery terminals can be a real pain when corroded as they also form the rheostat wiper and on/off 'switch'.

Also, when left idle for many years, it can take some patience to get the motor spinning again. I guess the commutator and/or brushes get corroded. Sometimes they respond to the likes of Servisol 10 (plus something like a manual spin with 3 v d.c. supply present for a bit). In extreme cases it can be taken apart, but the aluminium lugs on the motor will most probably only cope with one bending session! Once apart, the commutator can be cleaned and polished, the brushes cleaned and some contact cleaner applied. Also, some suitable oil can be applied to the ends of the shaft.

The batteries are wired in parallel. I've come to the conclusion that early zinc-carbon U2s couldn't provide sufficient current. These days, one alkaline D-cell will do the job fine. It doesn't matter which battery slot it's put into.

A characteristic of this machine is that the rpm will increase as the arm moves towards the centre of the record. There's no speed regulation of course.

Some will even go down to 45 rpm (they are very touchy down at that speed though, that's if it doesn't just switch off - it just depends on how they came out of manufacture). Great fun though.

Oh, yes, just remembered one more thing, the little rubber drive that sits on the motor shaft goes hard and/or out of shape with age. It can shake the turntable all over the place. A good replacement is a suitably-sized silicon sleeve - I've given up trying to drill perfectly in the centre of some rubber O-ring type material

Have fun!

[Martin Bush]

The player has arrived.

It's mucky, the battery terminals are corroded and it looks like it's had a leak at some point. It was sold as working and, given what I spent, I'm comfortable with its appearance.

What I'm not sure of is the motor as when you take the platter off the motor looks like it may perhaps be loose and only held in in one place. That may be the situation or it may be designed that way so that the shaft stays in contact with the rim of the platter (it sort of 'leans' against it). Or it might need fixing - I'm not sure.

Anyway, first job when I have time will be to give it a clean and try to get a battery to make good contact and see what happens. Any advice on the motor will be gratefully received.

I expect I will have to get the back, or the bottom in this case, off carefully and look inside too.

[jamesperrett]

As far as I can remember the motor is designed that way so that it presses on the side of the turntable. There may have been a spring involved as well - or maybe we added one ourselves to try to get more torque to play 10" 78s.

[af024]

Yes, that sounds fine, it's designed to lean to keep the rubber drive in contact with the turntable rim. I've seen more than one design in this area, but they all do the same thing.

I've also seen differences in the turntable spindle arrangement. One design has the spindle fixed to the base (most common) and the other, using a larger diameter spindle, has it fixed to the turntable.

If you are going to get inside at some point, my advice is DON'T try to press the black tabs in. They will very likely break. Use a spudger or thin flat-bladed screwdriver and slide it into the gap between the base and the side of the bottom cover in and around where the tab is, and then gently push the base away from the side of the bottom (and tab). That has always worked for me and I've never broken anything doing it that way.

Best of luck.

PS From memory, I don't think these toys will accommodate a 10" shellac 78 rom record. The arm rear will be in the way, I think you can just get away with a 7". Kidditunes, My Record and Gala Goldentone records (6") were the norm back in the day. I always preferred the Gala Goldentones (much better titles and production), but I think they are made of styrene instead of vinyl (like the Kidditunes and My Records), so they don't stand many plays before their surface goes dull and reproduction gets noisy eventually almost erasing it. They are also surprisingly brittle.

[Martin Bush]

Thanks chaps. I think I will see how it fares without trying to get the bottom off first as I am wary of those tabs.

[Graham G3ZVT]

There were also small sound-boxes inside toys that used plastic disks, perhaps 2" diameter
My Niece had a doll that recited "Little Tommy Tucker" voiced with a girl's voice with several plumbs in her gob!
There were also versions with two or more interleaved grooves that played a random phrase each time.
Some of these were powered by a D cell with motor and rubber band drive to the platter,
but others were spring driven, wound up by pulling a string.

[Martin Bush]

I think there is something like that at my Dad's house. A Minnie Mouse that says a selection of phrases when you pull her head (which is attached by a string to whatever is inside).

[af024]

If needed, it is possible to make replacement battery terminals out of a biscuit tin lid. It’s laborious and tortuous, but it is possible. The only trouble is that the gauge thickness is much less than the originals, so you have to be careful when changing batteries etc.

As far as I can see, there have been three different designs in and around the motor. The one that looks to be more common is the one where the motor pivots under its own weight. The next one is where the pressure for rim drive is achieved with springy metal. Then there’s the internal wheel and conical drive rubber (very rare I suspect).

I’ve also taken a photo of the spindle type that’s affixed to the turntable (not very common), and the internals of the motor.

Perhaps this helps?

All the best.