Which TV for a novice? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

JoshWard · 29th Nov 2024, 9:01 pm

Hi folks,
Despite my many years of messing around with vintage electronics I have never 'properly' dabbled with televisions. I have owned a fair few- I bought a working 1950s McMichael from another forum member many moons ago. I then acquired a Bush TV63 and a McMichael console set which Peter Sanders did a lot of work on and I enjoyed watching them both. I then attempted a restoration of a Pye V4, but I didn't last long! I did manage to acquire a working one of these last year to make up for it.

In 2018 I was sadly forced to part with virtually all of my collection of radios, all the televisions, my standards converter etc etc.
I am pleased to say I was able to bounce back and since 2020 I have managed to acquire a few (and a Hedghog standards converter) however I have never got as far as working on them, although I have enjoyed watching the V4 and a Decca I acquired from the same collector.

Very recently, I acquired a splendid Decca Bradford console set. A friend of mine who is a dab hand with early colour sets kindly came over and got it running. It's safe to say I now have the telly bug and I'm itching to have a go at working on one 'properly'. The question is, which would be a good set to start with? I have always enjoyed reading threads on television repair, seeing them come to life again and I have always hoped I would be able to do one.

I have been through the list and have put the model numbers into a poll. I appreciate that condition will make a massive difference, so things might change. There are a few more but alas with necked tubes. The Pye SP17 is the only one I can recall powering up, I didn't apply a signal but it did produce a raster. I am not sure on the model number of the Philips/Stella, I'm not even sure it is a Philips/Stella, it's buried at the bottom of a pile in the corner. I have attached a photo though!
Your expertise would be greatly appreciated.

19Seventy7 · 29th Nov 2024, 9:33 pm

My first ever 405 line set restoration was on a GEC BT318, and having had no real experience I found it a fantastic set to learn and work on. Really nice and simple and well laid out, and plenty of information out there. No real issues with these sets that I’ve ever heard of. Would always recommend it to others

I would personally wait to work on the D18T, I have one of these that I give attention to every now and then, and while I have now got a picture on it, it’s definitely not the most service friendly of sets, but a fun challenge nonetheless and well worth working on.

I have no experience with other sets so will leave those to the experts here!

Interested to see which you choose to go with first and how you get on with it!

‘77

slidertogrid · 29th Nov 2024, 9:42 pm

Hi Josh With any of the sets as you probably know ensuring the LOPT is completely dried out before you start in important. There are various ways from putting in a warm oven for a few hours to running current through the overwind. The Dynatron and similar Ekco sets are usually fairly easy to get going, the LOPT plastic may be a bit grotty but that can easily be replaced with Perspex.
My first full restoration of a vintage tv rather than just repairing it was a Bush TV22 which was simple enough. If you can find a set with Mullard Mustard capacitors in it that will save you a lot of work! I have two KB VC53 sets most of the capacitors are Mullard and both sets needed little work.
Have fun!
Rich.

JoshWard · 30th Nov 2024, 8:49 am

Thank you for your thoughts.

In my previous collection I had an immaculate GEC BT318 which I never got round to doing anything with, so I definitely have some unfinished business with that range of sets.

Most of these have been stored in my workshop for the past few years. Whilst it can get cold in there (although I have never seen the temperature below 5°), I have a dehumidifier running all the time so hopefully that should mean the LOPTs are dry.

The Dynatron and the Ekco T330F are the ones which have been in the queue longest.
I see we are currently level pegging between the GEC, the Dynatron, the TV95 and the Philips/Stella. I'll give it until next weekend and can hopefully make a start!

G6Tanuki · 30th Nov 2024, 10:13 am

I voted for the TMB272 - for me it's by far the most interesting.

Compact, and at least it looks like a piece of tech rather than a piece of old wooden furniture.

JoshWard · 30th Nov 2024, 10:46 am

Thank you. The TMB272 is a set I had wanted for a long time. I'm slightly wary about how suitable it will be for a beginner. I am guessing the power supply will be more complex with mains/battery arrangements and that the whole chassis will be quite cramped.
Personally I tend to sit firmly in preferring the 'wooden furniture' look!

I see the Ekco T330F and the Dynatron are now level pegging. Given their shared parentage, I suspect they will be quite similar to work on.

Ian - G4JQT · 30th Nov 2024, 11:03 am

Great if you have a set with a good image, and I doubt our sets really get much use, but surely the elephant in the room is the frequent scarcity (or sometimes complete unavailability) of good, working picture tubes?

JoshWard · 30th Nov 2024, 11:07 am

Thanks Ian. I think it will be a case of crossing that bridge as I come to it. If a set has a poor or faulty tube, I could temporarily abandon ship and take a look at the next one in the queue. The same would apply with a faulty LOPT or similar.

Vintage Engr · 30th Nov 2024, 11:41 am

The TV in your picture, from the front, looks like a Philips 17TG100U, or its Stella equivalent.
I used to work on a lot of this series, when they were new. I currently have two, one of which I've fully restored.
Fairly easy to work on as the chassis swings out nicely for servicing. As others have said, do ensure that the LOPT is really well dried out, particularly on this range of models, as they are well know for failure. They can be rewound, so not a real problem. The scan coils often used to go o/c in the early days, but those that have survived seem to last. Good quality pictures on this range.

Enjoy your time learning about vintage TV repairs, it can be both very rewarding & also frustrating! (Like why can't I go back in time to order a new tuner / dropper etc from CES in Croydon...?) Alas the great Philips site in Croydon is now a housing estate...

David.

slidertogrid · 30th Nov 2024, 12:38 pm

I have voted for the GEC BT320 as accessibility is better than the Ekco and Dynatron you can work on it in the cabinet. The LOPT has a better reputation than the Philips sets and the tube in these is usually OK or at least recoverable.

Nothing to lose by heating the LOPT before powering it. when I ran current through a couple of RBM overwinds I saw a dirty brown frothy foam come out of the centre of the winding where the core goes through so significant dampness I would say.
The GEC will probably have a combination of Hunts and wax capacitors so they will need evicting. Just think of it as like doing three old radios!

Rich

1100 man · 30th Nov 2024, 4:08 pm

Hi Josh,

It's good to see somebody wanting to get stuck in to TV repairing - it's very rewarding and with a standards converter and a stack of DVD's with vintage programmes, there is plenty of entertainment value in watching them.

I would say start with a combination of the set that interests you most combined with the best access. I would agree that the TMB272 & the D18T are best left until you have more experience. I think the GEC BT320 would be a great starting point, although I don't have any personal experience of these!

Don't worry too much about the tube (CRT). So long as the thing still has vacuum in it, the chances are that you can get a usable picture out of it. Even if the emission is really bad, they can usually be brought back to life. I have really never had much trouble with CRT's, certainly with '50's & newer sets. Mazda CRT's have gained a poor reputation, but I've never found them to be any worse than Mullard ones!

LOPT's on the other hand are a whole can of worms. I would say they are by far the most problematic part of any set which is why it is very well worth giving them the best chance of life by drying out the windings before first power up. Just because a set has been stored in an optimum environment for a few years, doesn't mean the windings won't have absorbed moisture over the years. Do some research on the forum for how to do this by passing a current through the windings to gently warm them from the inside - there is plenty of information about this.

Having had many LOPT problems, I've been able to fix almost all of them without resorting to a full rewind. Many have been insulation breakdown of some kind which can be fixed by careful dismantling & repair.

There are plenty of us on here who will be very willing to give you advice if you need help - just ask and start a thread about whichever set you decide to start with.

Good luck!
Cheers
Nick

Techman · 30th Nov 2024, 4:41 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

I voted for the TMB272 - for me it's by far the most interesting.

I wholeheartedly agree - well, you'd hardly expect me to say anything else

60 oldjohn · 1st Dec 2024, 1:32 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vintage Engr

The TV in your picture, from the front, looks like a Philips 17TG100U, or its Stella equivalent.
I used to work on a lot of this series, when they were new. I currently have two, one of which I've fully restored.
Fairly easy to work on as the chassis swings out nicely for servicing. As others have said, do ensure that the LOPT is really well dried out, particularly on this range of models, as they are well know for failure. They can be rewound, so not a real problem. The scan coils often used to go o/c in the early days, but those that have survived seem to last. Good quality pictures on this range.

Enjoy your time learning about vintage TV repairs, it can be both very rewarding & also frustrating! (Like why can't I go back in time to order a new tuner / dropper etc from CES in Croydon...?) Alas the great Philips site in Croydon is now a housing estate...

David.

Another vote for the Philips / Stella. First set I repaired when I was 10 years old. Fast forwards maybe 45 years and I found another at a massive car boot sale I could have been parked nearly a mile from the set, unbelievable lucky for me I had it to carry just maybe 10 meters. Needed the black tar caps changing and a valve or two , also some of the resistors were way out of spec. Gave a good picture. This is one of the better designs of sets when compared to the Radios! I really like the swing out gate design, that does not need wires disconnecting.

John.

JoshWard · 1st Dec 2024, 9:42 pm

Thank you all for your input.

Nick- Your words of encouragement are greatly appreciated!
John- That's useful to hear. The many Philips radios I have worked on were putting me off slightly, a little bit of fear over how complicated one of their televisions might be! Although reflecting on it, most of their radio designs from this era have proven to be very reliable.

It looks like the GEC is the favourite, followed by the Philips/Stella. Looking forward to getting stuck in. From memory the cabinet on the Philips/Stella is beautifully glossy, so it should make a nice set!

Lloyd 1985 · 1st Dec 2024, 10:17 pm

Another vote for the Ekco TMB-272! They are a bit fiddly to work on, and there are either going to be the Hunts brown crumbly caps or the ones that look like little fat resistors with rounded ends (egen?), which will all need to be replaced. The good thing about them is the isolated chassis because of the mains transformer, makes it a little safer to work on. I still say that they give the best picture of any 405 line set! And so far mine has been very reliable. here’s a link to the one I revived.

Regards,
Lloyd

Rich Woods · 3rd Dec 2024, 9:46 am

I really have a soft spot for the GEC BT302 and BT303. Good reliable sets with two easily removed panels that are simple to work on. Also my first successful restoration (aged 10, working under instruction for a start from my late father). I’ve had a BT302 second hand from eBay for over ten years now and apart from a couple of valves it’s been completely reliable to date!

JoshWard · 6th Dec 2024, 11:13 am

Thanks folks. Looks like the GEC is by far and away the winner! I have had a little bit of time this morning to dig it out and put it onto the bench, so a new thread will be coming. Now I have dug it out, I think it may be a different model as it also has a VHF radio. I have limited service data for TVs so have treated myself to the TV service data USB from 'up top', hopefully this will help identify it!

View Poll Results: Which telly to begin with?
Bush TV95	3	11.54%
Dynatron TV36F	2	7.69%
Ekco TMB272	4	15.38%
Ekco T330F	2	7.69%
Ekco T368FP	0	0%
Ekco T415F	1	3.85%
GEC BT320	9	34.62%
HMV 1892	1	3.85%
KB RV20	0	0%
Marconi VT157	0	0%
Murphy V240C	0	0%
Murphy V410	0	0%
Philips/Stella	3	11.54%
Pye D18T	1	3.85%
Pye SP17	0	0%
Sobell TPS187	0	0%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

29th Nov 2024, 9:01 pm	#1
JoshWard Nonode Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Near Stowmarket, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 2,115	Which TV for a novice? Hi folks, Despite my many years of messing around with vintage electronics I have never 'properly' dabbled with televisions. I have owned a fair few- I bought a working 1950s McMichael from another forum member many moons ago. I then acquired a Bush TV63 and a McMichael console set which Peter Sanders did a lot of work on and I enjoyed watching them both. I then attempted a restoration of a Pye V4, but I didn't last long! I did manage to acquire a working one of these last year to make up for it. In 2018 I was sadly forced to part with virtually all of my collection of radios, all the televisions, my standards converter etc etc. I am pleased to say I was able to bounce back and since 2020 I have managed to acquire a few (and a Hedghog standards converter) however I have never got as far as working on them, although I have enjoyed watching the V4 and a Decca I acquired from the same collector. Very recently, I acquired a splendid Decca Bradford console set. A friend of mine who is a dab hand with early colour sets kindly came over and got it running. It's safe to say I now have the telly bug and I'm itching to have a go at working on one 'properly'. The question is, which would be a good set to start with? I have always enjoyed reading threads on television repair, seeing them come to life again and I have always hoped I would be able to do one. I have been through the list and have put the model numbers into a poll. I appreciate that condition will make a massive difference, so things might change. There are a few more but alas with necked tubes. The Pye SP17 is the only one I can recall powering up, I didn't apply a signal but it did produce a raster. I am not sure on the model number of the Philips/Stella, I'm not even sure it is a Philips/Stella, it's buried at the bottom of a pile in the corner. I have attached a photo though! Your expertise would be greatly appreciated. Attached Thumbnails

29th Nov 2024, 9:33 pm	#2
19Seventy7 Octode Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Essex, UK. Posts: 1,389	Re: Which TV for a novice? My first ever 405 line set restoration was on a GEC BT318, and having had no real experience I found it a fantastic set to learn and work on. Really nice and simple and well laid out, and plenty of information out there. No real issues with these sets that I’ve ever heard of. Would always recommend it to others I would personally wait to work on the D18T, I have one of these that I give attention to every now and then, and while I have now got a picture on it, it’s definitely not the most service friendly of sets, but a fun challenge nonetheless and well worth working on. I have no experience with other sets so will leave those to the experts here! Interested to see which you choose to go with first and how you get on with it! ‘77

29th Nov 2024, 9:42 pm	#3
slidertogrid Nonode Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK. Posts: 2,267	Re: Which TV for a novice? Hi Josh With any of the sets as you probably know ensuring the LOPT is completely dried out before you start in important. There are various ways from putting in a warm oven for a few hours to running current through the overwind. The Dynatron and similar Ekco sets are usually fairly easy to get going, the LOPT plastic may be a bit grotty but that can easily be replaced with Perspex. My first full restoration of a vintage tv rather than just repairing it was a Bush TV22 which was simple enough. If you can find a set with Mullard Mustard capacitors in it that will save you a lot of work! I have two KB VC53 sets most of the capacitors are Mullard and both sets needed little work. Have fun! Rich. __________________ I am starting a choir for Christmas. So far we have Dean Dom Mary Lee and I...

30th Nov 2024, 8:49 am	#4
JoshWard Nonode Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Near Stowmarket, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 2,115	Re: Which TV for a novice? Thank you for your thoughts. In my previous collection I had an immaculate GEC BT318 which I never got round to doing anything with, so I definitely have some unfinished business with that range of sets. Most of these have been stored in my workshop for the past few years. Whilst it can get cold in there (although I have never seen the temperature below 5°), I have a dehumidifier running all the time so hopefully that should mean the LOPTs are dry. The Dynatron and the Ekco T330F are the ones which have been in the queue longest. I see we are currently level pegging between the GEC, the Dynatron, the TV95 and the Philips/Stella. I'll give it until next weekend and can hopefully make a start!

30th Nov 2024, 10:13 am	#5
G6Tanuki Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 15,756	Re: Which TV for a novice? I voted for the TMB272 - for me it's by far the most interesting. Compact, and at least it looks like a piece of tech rather than a piece of old wooden furniture. __________________ "It's not true that I had nothing on. I had the radio on!" -Marilyn Monroe .

30th Nov 2024, 10:46 am	#6
JoshWard Nonode Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Near Stowmarket, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 2,115	Re: Which TV for a novice? Thank you. The TMB272 is a set I had wanted for a long time. I'm slightly wary about how suitable it will be for a beginner. I am guessing the power supply will be more complex with mains/battery arrangements and that the whole chassis will be quite cramped. Personally I tend to sit firmly in preferring the 'wooden furniture' look! I see the Ekco T330F and the Dynatron are now level pegging. Given their shared parentage, I suspect they will be quite similar to work on.

30th Nov 2024, 11:03 am	#7
Ian - G4JQT Octode Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Reading/Fakenham, UK. Posts: 1,421	Re: Which TV for a novice? Great if you have a set with a good image, and I doubt our sets really get much use, but surely the elephant in the room is the frequent scarcity (or sometimes complete unavailability) of good, working picture tubes?

30th Nov 2024, 11:07 am	#8
JoshWard Nonode Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Near Stowmarket, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 2,115	Re: Which TV for a novice? Thanks Ian. I think it will be a case of crossing that bridge as I come to it. If a set has a poor or faulty tube, I could temporarily abandon ship and take a look at the next one in the queue. The same would apply with a faulty LOPT or similar.

30th Nov 2024, 11:41 am	#9
Vintage Engr Octode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK. Posts: 1,129	Re: Which TV for a novice? The TV in your picture, from the front, looks like a Philips 17TG100U, or its Stella equivalent. I used to work on a lot of this series, when they were new. I currently have two, one of which I've fully restored. Fairly easy to work on as the chassis swings out nicely for servicing. As others have said, do ensure that the LOPT is really well dried out, particularly on this range of models, as they are well know for failure. They can be rewound, so not a real problem. The scan coils often used to go o/c in the early days, but those that have survived seem to last. Good quality pictures on this range. Enjoy your time learning about vintage TV repairs, it can be both very rewarding & also frustrating! (Like why can't I go back in time to order a new tuner / dropper etc from CES in Croydon...?) Alas the great Philips site in Croydon is now a housing estate... David.

30th Nov 2024, 12:38 pm	#10
slidertogrid Nonode Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK. Posts: 2,267	Re: Which TV for a novice? I have voted for the GEC BT320 as accessibility is better than the Ekco and Dynatron you can work on it in the cabinet. The LOPT has a better reputation than the Philips sets and the tube in these is usually OK or at least recoverable. Nothing to lose by heating the LOPT before powering it. when I ran current through a couple of RBM overwinds I saw a dirty brown frothy foam come out of the centre of the winding where the core goes through so significant dampness I would say. The GEC will probably have a combination of Hunts and wax capacitors so they will need evicting. Just think of it as like doing three old radios! Rich __________________ I am starting a choir for Christmas. So far we have Dean Dom Mary Lee and I...

30th Nov 2024, 4:08 pm	#11
1100 man Octode Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Ventnor, Isle of Wight, & Great Dunmow, Essex, UK. Posts: 1,406	Re: Which TV for a novice? Hi Josh, It's good to see somebody wanting to get stuck in to TV repairing - it's very rewarding and with a standards converter and a stack of DVD's with vintage programmes, there is plenty of entertainment value in watching them. I would say start with a combination of the set that interests you most combined with the best access. I would agree that the TMB272 & the D18T are best left until you have more experience. I think the GEC BT320 would be a great starting point, although I don't have any personal experience of these! Don't worry too much about the tube (CRT). So long as the thing still has vacuum in it, the chances are that you can get a usable picture out of it. Even if the emission is really bad, they can usually be brought back to life. I have really never had much trouble with CRT's, certainly with '50's & newer sets. Mazda CRT's have gained a poor reputation, but I've never found them to be any worse than Mullard ones! LOPT's on the other hand are a whole can of worms. I would say they are by far the most problematic part of any set which is why it is very well worth giving them the best chance of life by drying out the windings before first power up. Just because a set has been stored in an optimum environment for a few years, doesn't mean the windings won't have absorbed moisture over the years. Do some research on the forum for how to do this by passing a current through the windings to gently warm them from the inside - there is plenty of information about this. Having had many LOPT problems, I've been able to fix almost all of them without resorting to a full rewind. Many have been insulation breakdown of some kind which can be fixed by careful dismantling & repair. There are plenty of us on here who will be very willing to give you advice if you need help - just ask and start a thread about whichever set you decide to start with. Good luck! Cheers Nick

1st Dec 2024, 9:42 pm	#14
JoshWard Nonode Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Near Stowmarket, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 2,115	Re: Which TV for a novice? Thank you all for your input. Nick- Your words of encouragement are greatly appreciated! John- That's useful to hear. The many Philips radios I have worked on were putting me off slightly, a little bit of fear over how complicated one of their televisions might be! Although reflecting on it, most of their radio designs from this era have proven to be very reliable. It looks like the GEC is the favourite, followed by the Philips/Stella. Looking forward to getting stuck in. From memory the cabinet on the Philips/Stella is beautifully glossy, so it should make a nice set!

1st Dec 2024, 10:17 pm	#15
Lloyd 1985 Nonode Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Coningsby, Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 2,881	Re: Which TV for a novice? Another vote for the Ekco TMB-272! They are a bit fiddly to work on, and there are either going to be the Hunts brown crumbly caps or the ones that look like little fat resistors with rounded ends (egen?), which will all need to be replaced. The good thing about them is the isolated chassis because of the mains transformer, makes it a little safer to work on. I still say that they give the best picture of any 405 line set! And so far mine has been very reliable. here’s a link to the one I revived. Regards, Lloyd

3rd Dec 2024, 9:46 am	#16
Rich Woods Hexode Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ceredigion, Wales, UK. Posts: 355	Re: Which TV for a novice? I really have a soft spot for the GEC BT302 and BT303. Good reliable sets with two easily removed panels that are simple to work on. Also my first successful restoration (aged 10, working under instruction for a start from my late father). I’ve had a BT302 second hand from eBay for over ten years now and apart from a couple of valves it’s been completely reliable to date! __________________ It’s all about the music…….

6th Dec 2024, 11:13 am	#17
JoshWard Nonode Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Near Stowmarket, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 2,115	Re: Which TV for a novice? Thanks folks. Looks like the GEC is by far and away the winner! I have had a little bit of time this morning to dig it out and put it onto the bench, so a new thread will be coming. Now I have dug it out, I think it may be a different model as it also has a VHF radio. I have limited service data for TVs so have treated myself to the TV service data USB from 'up top', hopefully this will help identify it!