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Vintage Telephony and Telecomms Vintage Telephones, Telephony and Telecomms Equipment |
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17th Nov 2017, 1:23 pm | #1 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 17,866
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Just bought another 300-series 'phone...
Hello everyone,
I recently bought this rather nice phone in a local charity shop for a very reasonable £30. It’s complete with both cords and in good condition though has obviously seen some damp conditions over the years. You don’t have to be a phone expert to spot that the dial would be more at home on a 706 though… I’m interested in its history, i.e. whether you all think it’s a mongrel put together with junk box bits, or if it’s evolved into its current form as a result of modernisation and repairs. Here are the salient points: The base is stamped L11568A1 which Bob Freshwater’s site identifies as an ATM 300-style CB telephone. It’s also dated 2nd November 1956 but this has been obscured with a rectangular patch of matte, off-white paint. The “paster” on the inside of the base identifies it as a Telephone No. 332 (Mark 2), which I understood to be a GPO designation. The plungers are the older style with the tapered housing, designed to work with the chassis fitted with a flat gravity hook switch plate (rather than the later ones with rollers). |
17th Nov 2017, 1:23 pm | #2 |
Dekatron
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Re: Just bought another 300-series 'phone...
There is no model number stamped on the chassis between the gongs, but the capacitor is stamped ATE, which was ATM’s new name.
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17th Nov 2017, 1:26 pm | #3 |
Dekatron
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Re: Just bought another 300-series 'phone...
The dial is type 21LA fitted with a No. 389 label and a PVC-insulated wiring loom. Presumably the marking APB indicates that it was made by A.P Besson. Bob’s site says: Dials, Automatic, No. 21LA, Black may be issued in lieu of Dials, Automatic, No. 12LA for use on pre 700-type telephones. The letter 'L,' in the title indicates that it includes a number ring bearing figures and letters. The dial’s plastic body sits about 1/8” proud of the phone’s case which leaves a rather unsightly gap which tends to gather debris. Should some kind of spacer have also been used?
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17th Nov 2017, 1:29 pm | #4 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 17,866
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Re: Just bought another 300-series 'phone...
The handset it the usual type 164 dated 1948, fitted with the later Receiver Inset No. 2P (maybe the Mk.3 introduced c. 1949), Earpiece No. 23 and Diaphragm No. 25 along with a transmitter Inset No. 10 with Mouthpiece No. 15.
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17th Nov 2017, 1:32 pm | #5 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
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Re: Just bought another 300-series 'phone...
So what’s your opinion? A 1950s, non-GPO instrument that’s been converted from CB to auto in the 1960s?
Either way, I’m sure it will restore well. Thanks, Nick. |
17th Nov 2017, 1:50 pm | #6 | |
Dekatron
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Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK.
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Re: Just bought another 300-series 'phone...
Quote:
That said, I have a 710 Telephone (ex-GPO) with 'CB' stamped on the base, yet it was very much in service as an automatic when I acquired it. I understand that some telephones were converted 'on the spot' without being refurbed and re-labelled. I think the designed-in economies of scale and interchangeability of parts means that it's perfectly acceptable (and more common, for whatever reason, than you might suppose) to have a 'bitsa' as opposed to an instrument that is as it was manufactured. Especially given the ubiquity of the 332. I'd be inclined to fit a No:10 or No:12 chrome dial if I could, though.
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Regds, Russell W. B. G4YLI. |
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17th Nov 2017, 2:11 pm | #7 |
Octode
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,453
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Re: Just bought another 300-series 'phone...
Being non-GPO it could have had bits changed during it's service life by the owner's technicians using what they had available.
I've got a GEC 332 and the label inside uses that designation too. It didn't have a base when I got it so have no idea how that was marked. As Russell says, it looks good. Personally I don't find the black dial objectionable either. |
17th Nov 2017, 5:13 pm | #8 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Re: Just bought another 300-series 'phone...
Thanks chaps.
I like the black dial too, except for the messy-looking gap between its back and the front of the phone. I have actually fitted a No. 12 dial with "chrome" fingerplate which I found lying around in the top of the kids' wardrobe yesterday (as you do!). The 21LA will look more at home in a black 706 which I have but which has been "updated" with a 746-style one. Nick. |
17th Nov 2017, 6:42 pm | #9 | ||
Heptode
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Flintshire, UK.
Posts: 707
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Re: Just bought another 300-series 'phone...
Quote:
Bear in mind that the phone is more than likely been in enthusiasts hands for at least 40 years during which time many pats could have been changed. During my 'Plessey' days from mid 1970's, it was rare to find a Bakelite telephone on a PAX system as most were recovered and changed out for 700 style phones. Can't think where we would have had a CB phone unless it had been just for incoming calls. I looked after Plessey systems in the northern half of Wales plus the border counties can't remember seeing a CB 300 type all the systems in that area. Far more likely to have been modified in its 'preservation' era. I've just had a dozen or so 300 types arrive - some still in original boxes which I've got to sort out, check and probably convert. It will be interesting to see just what they are. Some other phones came with them including one made by 'British Insulated Helsby Cables' from whom 'Automatic Telephone Manufacturing Company' was their offshoot that produced automatic equipment. There seem to be few BIHC phones about - only other one I've got is a GPO Tele No 2 made in 1910 - stamped with the GPO's 'H' manufacturer's code which was in existence before ATM came into being. Ian ex-GPO Telephones ex-Plessey Communication Systems (originally 'Communication Systems' - AT&E's PAX sales/rental/maintenance subsidiary) |
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17th Nov 2017, 7:45 pm | #10 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Re: Just bought another 300-series 'phone...
Thanks too, Ian, that's fascinating.
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17th Nov 2017, 11:00 pm | #11 |
Dekatron
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Re: Just bought another 300-series 'phone...
I've now stripped it, cleaned off all the muck, smartened-up the Bakelite with the usual Greygate polish and gently cleaned the dial's three contacts with a piece of paper moistened with Servisol Super 10.
Then I stuck it, as-is, across the line via the master socket's ADSL filter... Who needs a Rotatone, mic. inset 21A and "modern BT plug conversion"?! It works perfectly in every respect. It dials out reliably, the bell sounds wonderful, the somewhat rusty receiver is loud and clear, and even the original carbon transmitter works as well as it should! Not bad for 60+ years old. Assuming it's REN isn't too high, I'm now going to see if I can find room for it in the house somewhere Nick Last edited by Nickthedentist; 17th Nov 2017 at 11:06 pm. |
17th Nov 2017, 11:46 pm | #12 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK.
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Re: Just bought another 300-series 'phone...
Excellent. I wonder how many of today's telephones will still be working and serviceable sixty years hence?
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Regds, Russell W. B. G4YLI. |
18th Nov 2017, 10:10 am | #13 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
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Re: Just bought another 300-series 'phone...
Yes, I wonder.
Pleased to report that the Panasonic DECT phone system and GPO 711 in the kitchen both still ring perfectly in spite of having this phone connected in parallel, so it can stay. Nick. |
18th Nov 2017, 4:38 pm | #14 | |
Heptode
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK.
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Re: Just bought another 300-series 'phone...
Quote:
I'm around 814'ASL, and have in the past 16 years had many modern phones destroyed by lightning. One went just as I was about to use it, nice piece of charcoal now. The DECT ones, the base units just fry. The vintage ones are fine, not even flashover damage. I went through 9 telephones & 7 modems before finally installing some decent lightning arresters! No problem with the old ones. David. |
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