What to do about an old Radiogram? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

hans · 10th May 2009, 5:57 pm

I have just rescued a late 30's early 40's Tandberg radiogram with a Garrard record player. The radio was a top of the line product when new and is a quality product, but will need some work before powering up. The main problem is the cabinet. It has been painted and has scratches. I dont think it will be possible to restore it to original. Another problem is smell. My nose tells me that it has been stored in a basement. Is it possible to get rid of te odour?

What should i do with the cabinet? It can't be many left, but will it have any (historic) value in the state it is now. My first thought was to keep the radio and record player and dump the rest.

maitiustandun · 10th May 2009, 6:25 pm

please dont scrap the cabinet, there are threads on the forum dealing with cabinet restoration, provided theres not wood rot or wood worm, worm can be treated, the odour can be cured by leaving it out in a sheltered place with plenty of air circulating, paint remover can be applied carefully and removed before it eats into the original finish , which you want to restore, care needs to be taken with goggles for your eyes and rubber gloves to protect you from the chemicals, scratches can be masked with wax, and the original surface used where possible, there are plenty of members on forum who'll help you , best regards maitiu

Nickthedentist · 10th May 2009, 8:47 pm

Hello, Hans!

Could we have some pictures?

Like Maitiu, I think this is well worth saving. Good pre-war radiograms are fairly scarce here, and I'd imagine even more so where you are.

Is it like any of the ones pictured here:
http://www.nrhf.no/nrhf-TR.html

Nick.

PaulR · 10th May 2009, 9:41 pm

I second what has been said about the cabinet. I am sure it will be worth saving even it it won't come up like new. Even the most un-promising cabinets can be restored. Members here have replaced the veneer in the worst cases, but this usually doesnt even need to be considered.

Have a look at this, there isnt any paint but a pretty rough cabinet has been greatly improved.

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=40247

Paul

hans · 12th May 2009, 10:11 pm

I have some pictures here of the radiogram.

The cabinet is painted, but was orginally light colured wood. It has scratches, but not rot or worms. It looks better a I remebered. But the smell is still there.

The radio is a Huldra 3 made during the war. I couldn't find the radiogram on NRHF's pages. I'm not shure how many was made, but I think they didn't make many during the war. Especially since the nazis occupied this country and banned radios.

The radio it self is in perfect condition, at least opticaly. No dust at all. Even though it must have been stored in humidity there is almost no rust, only some spots on the mains transformer. Inside it looks like new except from some faded print on the valves. When I get time i'll get this radio running.

chipp1968 · 12th May 2009, 10:27 pm

Thats an interesting thing . It looks totaly restorable . The paint needs to be carefully removed ,and then the set re finished properly ,and you will have a very nice Radiogram .Its much too good to destroy , especially if its rare .

Nickthedentist · 12th May 2009, 10:33 pm

Yes, I agree with Chipp, do try to save it.

I'd contact the NRHF and send them a picture, they might be very interested.

What a horrible 1960s(?) paint job!!

Best of luck with it. Don't worry about the smell, it will gradually go.

Nick.

hans · 12th May 2009, 10:41 pm

I hope the smell disappears... I can have the cabinet stored in the garage during the summer and see if it gets better.

The deep scratches are mainly on one side and not visible on the picture. I have no experience with paint removers. I think the reasin it is painted in the first place is due to damage. The best thing in my mind would be to remove the paint and the original finish.

I think the radio is so nice it belongs on dislay. It should have had some plexiglas cabinet.

Sideband · 13th May 2009, 8:56 am

Maybe you could talk to a cabinet maker or restorer in your area? It would be interesting to see what the wood is like under the paint. That could be restored into a superb piece of furniture. The radio shouldn't be any problem to retore.

Rich.

HamishBoxer · 13th May 2009, 10:13 am

Think this is 1930s in view of side contact valves and worth total restoration.

David

Aerodyne · 13th May 2009, 10:46 am

I absolutely agree that the radiogram is well worth saving. As for the smell, with the cabinet emptied, a wash with domestic bleach diluted with warm water should help the odour removal process along nicely. Dry out with a hair dryer, perhaps, then treat with a wood protection chemical - I use five-star wood preservative in Britain.
I rather doubt that you will be able to remove the blue paint without at least some damage to the underlying finish, so be prepared for a refinishing task. I think it will be a very nice bit of kit once restored. Pity you don't live in Peterborough, UK...
-Tony

PaulR · 13th May 2009, 6:34 pm

I agree with all the other comments. The paint will need to be stripped and that will remove the original finish.

This isnt the end of the world as it can be stained if necessary and then re-finished using Danish Oil if available. This is very easy to use and leaves a nice finish.

Let us know how you get on.

Top Cap · 13th May 2009, 8:43 pm

I love the DCC wire on the transformer windings, make sure that component is well devoid of any damp before trying. Yes, it is certainly worthy of full restoration.
Les

Nickthedentist · 13th May 2009, 8:47 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerodyne

a wash with domestic bleach diluted with warm water should help the odour removal process along nicely.

Maybe try spraying the bare wooden insides (not too liberally!) from a housplant sprayer, making sure you don't breathe in the droplets.

I presume the "damp" smell is caused by mould spores etc. (as you can see in the grooves of the record).

Nick.

hans · 13th May 2009, 9:40 pm

I have no time to do any work on the set now. It is now in a garage at work and I can leave it there a couple of months. Maybe it will smell less in then. The radio is easy to remove, and i can sneak it into the house. (If it doesn't smell too strong) Since i have no time for restoration now it can dry for a couple of months.

I haven't seen the set i daylight yet, and the light in the garage is not very bright. It would be interesting to see how bad the scratches and the other damages are.

About the valves. I have never dared to remove valves with side contacts. I am afraid the socket will separate from the glass or the contacts vill break. Am I worried without reason? My experince with old valves is not that good. In the past a couple top contacts have been pulled off when trying to remove the top cap.

dave walsh · 17th May 2009, 6:17 pm

I agree with all these supportive comments Hans. Even the green was probaly
quite striking in the 60's! I've seen a radio and a RG in this shade over here and both were emulsion painted which comes easily off a varnished surface.
As to the "odour" if it is not practical to leave it out in a strong wind [like the washing] then enclosing the entire thing in plastic with a tray of a suitably absorbent agent should work. I think the standard ones are Borax or Bicarbonate of Soda but I recall that someone recommended cat litter [yes really!] obviously good with damp and smells [particularly tobacco apparently].
You have identified the radio as a Huldra 3. The Dial seemed to bear a striking resemblance to the "protractor" Tuner in some Dynatrond RG's [also known as Marconi Marine Receivers] but it's not one of those! Finally, I'm wondering which are the side contact valves referred to by Hamish and yourself? It's probaly just me but they don't seem obvious in the interesting photos you put up. Best Wishes Dave W

AlanBeckett · 17th May 2009, 6:55 pm

Dave,
Errrrrr.
They all look olike side contact valves to me

Try to pull them out by their bases, not the (glass) envelopes.
Alan

dave walsh · 17th May 2009, 8:08 pm

Ok Alan. it was just me-I've not had a lot of sc experience [as you can tell]. Had one set many years ago in which the sc holders seemed much more obviously different to regular valve bases so I was visually confused

. Thanks very much for your response anyway.
I'm still wondering why people seem to choose green [sometimes red] for a home "re-spray"? Dave

AlanBeckett · 17th May 2009, 8:43 pm

Dave,
They're not always easy to spot with that type of holder as the base disapears into the holder, and the valve looks as though it's standing on the chassis, just like a normal valve.
I don't know why green is/was so popular - perhaps it's a generation thing. 25 years ago we bought a house of a couple of (nice) old codgers, and almost evrything in there was green. I also potter about with old machine tools. Guess what the most popular colour for a repaint is? At least he doesn't have to remove Hammerite!
Alan

hans · 18th May 2009, 12:21 am

All valves are side contacts. After what i have read about these thy weren't popular in UK. After 1945 they were not used here either.

The paint doesn't stick well to the original varnish. Maybe it is possible to get the paint off without. I'll investigate this a bit more. I can live with the original cabinet having a couple of scratches...

Will ozone treatment kill the smell? It works well on smoke damaged goods I have heard.

10th May 2009, 5:57 pm	#1
hans Heptode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Oslo, Norway. Posts: 632	What to do about an old Radiogram? I have just rescued a late 30's early 40's Tandberg radiogram with a Garrard record player. The radio was a top of the line product when new and is a quality product, but will need some work before powering up. The main problem is the cabinet. It has been painted and has scratches. I dont think it will be possible to restore it to original. Another problem is smell. My nose tells me that it has been stored in a basement. Is it possible to get rid of te odour? What should i do with the cabinet? It can't be many left, but will it have any (historic) value in the state it is now. My first thought was to keep the radio and record player and dump the rest.

10th May 2009, 6:25 pm	#2
maitiustandun Pentode Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Dublin, Ireland. Posts: 157	Re: What to do about an old Radiogram? please dont scrap the cabinet, there are threads on the forum dealing with cabinet restoration, provided theres not wood rot or wood worm, worm can be treated, the odour can be cured by leaving it out in a sheltered place with plenty of air circulating, paint remover can be applied carefully and removed before it eats into the original finish , which you want to restore, care needs to be taken with goggles for your eyes and rubber gloves to protect you from the chemicals, scratches can be masked with wax, and the original surface used where possible, there are plenty of members on forum who'll help you , best regards maitiu

10th May 2009, 8:47 pm	#3
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,865	Re: What to do about an old Radiogram? Hello, Hans! Could we have some pictures? Like Maitiu, I think this is well worth saving. Good pre-war radiograms are fairly scarce here, and I'd imagine even more so where you are. Is it like any of the ones pictured here: http://www.nrhf.no/nrhf-TR.html Nick.

10th May 2009, 9:41 pm	#4
PaulR Dekatron Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southport Lancashire, UK. Posts: 3,237	Re: What to do about an old Radiogram? I second what has been said about the cabinet. I am sure it will be worth saving even it it won't come up like new. Even the most un-promising cabinets can be restored. Members here have replaced the veneer in the worst cases, but this usually doesnt even need to be considered. Have a look at this, there isnt any paint but a pretty rough cabinet has been greatly improved. https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=40247 Paul

12th May 2009, 10:11 pm	#5
hans Heptode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Oslo, Norway. Posts: 632	Re: What to do about an old Radiogram? I have some pictures here of the radiogram. The cabinet is painted, but was orginally light colured wood. It has scratches, but not rot or worms. It looks better a I remebered. But the smell is still there. The radio is a Huldra 3 made during the war. I couldn't find the radiogram on NRHF's pages. I'm not shure how many was made, but I think they didn't make many during the war. Especially since the nazis occupied this country and banned radios. The radio it self is in perfect condition, at least opticaly. No dust at all. Even though it must have been stored in humidity there is almost no rust, only some spots on the mains transformer. Inside it looks like new except from some faded print on the valves. When I get time i'll get this radio running. Attached Thumbnails

12th May 2009, 10:27 pm	#6
chipp1968 Rest in Peace Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Somerset, UK. Posts: 2,356	Re: What to do about an old Radiogram? Thats an interesting thing . It looks totaly restorable . The paint needs to be carefully removed ,and then the set re finished properly ,and you will have a very nice Radiogram .Its much too good to destroy , especially if its rare .

12th May 2009, 10:33 pm	#7
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,865	Re: What to do about an old Radiogram? Yes, I agree with Chipp, do try to save it. I'd contact the NRHF and send them a picture, they might be very interested. What a horrible 1960s(?) paint job!! Best of luck with it. Don't worry about the smell, it will gradually go. Nick.

12th May 2009, 10:41 pm	#8
hans Heptode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Oslo, Norway. Posts: 632	Re: What to do about an old Radiogram? I hope the smell disappears... I can have the cabinet stored in the garage during the summer and see if it gets better. The deep scratches are mainly on one side and not visible on the picture. I have no experience with paint removers. I think the reasin it is painted in the first place is due to damage. The best thing in my mind would be to remove the paint and the original finish. I think the radio is so nice it belongs on dislay. It should have had some plexiglas cabinet.

13th May 2009, 8:56 am	#9
Sideband Dekatron Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Croydon, Surrey, UK. Posts: 7,580	Re: What to do about an old Radiogram? Maybe you could talk to a cabinet maker or restorer in your area? It would be interesting to see what the wood is like under the paint. That could be restored into a superb piece of furniture. The radio shouldn't be any problem to retore. Rich. __________________ There are lots of brilliant keyboard players and then there is Rick Wakeman.....

13th May 2009, 10:13 am	#10
HamishBoxer Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK. Posts: 8,935	Re: What to do about an old Radiogram? Think this is 1930s in view of side contact valves and worth total restoration. David

13th May 2009, 10:46 am	#11
Aerodyne Octode Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Hampton Vale, Peterborough, UK. Posts: 1,698	Re: What to do about an old Radiogram? I absolutely agree that the radiogram is well worth saving. As for the smell, with the cabinet emptied, a wash with domestic bleach diluted with warm water should help the odour removal process along nicely. Dry out with a hair dryer, perhaps, then treat with a wood protection chemical - I use five-star wood preservative in Britain. I rather doubt that you will be able to remove the blue paint without at least some damage to the underlying finish, so be prepared for a refinishing task. I think it will be a very nice bit of kit once restored. Pity you don't live in Peterborough, UK... -Tony Last edited by Aerodyne; 13th May 2009 at 10:47 am. Reason: Spelling error

13th May 2009, 6:34 pm	#12
PaulR Dekatron Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southport Lancashire, UK. Posts: 3,237	Re: What to do about an old Radiogram? I agree with all the other comments. The paint will need to be stripped and that will remove the original finish. This isnt the end of the world as it can be stained if necessary and then re-finished using Danish Oil if available. This is very easy to use and leaves a nice finish. Let us know how you get on.

13th May 2009, 8:43 pm	#13
Top Cap Octode Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Watford, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 1,270	Re: What to do about an old Radiogram? I love the DCC wire on the transformer windings, make sure that component is well devoid of any damp before trying. Yes, it is certainly worthy of full restoration. Les __________________ Whether the Top Cap is Grid or Anode - touching it will give you a buzz either way!

13th May 2009, 9:40 pm	#15
hans Heptode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Oslo, Norway. Posts: 632	Re: What to do about an old Radiogram? I have no time to do any work on the set now. It is now in a garage at work and I can leave it there a couple of months. Maybe it will smell less in then. The radio is easy to remove, and i can sneak it into the house. (If it doesn't smell too strong) Since i have no time for restoration now it can dry for a couple of months. I haven't seen the set i daylight yet, and the light in the garage is not very bright. It would be interesting to see how bad the scratches and the other damages are. About the valves. I have never dared to remove valves with side contacts. I am afraid the socket will separate from the glass or the contacts vill break. Am I worried without reason? My experince with old valves is not that good. In the past a couple top contacts have been pulled off when trying to remove the top cap.

17th May 2009, 6:17 pm	#16
dave walsh Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex. Posts: 5,817	Re: What to do about an old Radiogram? I agree with all these supportive comments Hans. Even the green was probaly quite striking in the 60's! I've seen a radio and a RG in this shade over here and both were emulsion painted which comes easily off a varnished surface. As to the "odour" if it is not practical to leave it out in a strong wind [like the washing] then enclosing the entire thing in plastic with a tray of a suitably absorbent agent should work. I think the standard ones are Borax or Bicarbonate of Soda but I recall that someone recommended cat litter [yes really!] obviously good with damp and smells [particularly tobacco apparently]. You have identified the radio as a Huldra 3. The Dial seemed to bear a striking resemblance to the "protractor" Tuner in some Dynatrond RG's [also known as Marconi Marine Receivers] but it's not one of those! Finally, I'm wondering which are the side contact valves referred to by Hamish and yourself? It's probaly just me but they don't seem obvious in the interesting photos you put up. Best Wishes Dave W

17th May 2009, 6:55 pm	#17
AlanBeckett Rest in Peace Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Burton upon Trent, East Staffordshire, UK. Posts: 1,686	Re: What to do about an old Radiogram? Dave, Errrrrr. They all look olike side contact valves to me Try to pull them out by their bases, not the (glass) envelopes. Alan

17th May 2009, 8:08 pm	#18
dave walsh Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex. Posts: 5,817	Re: What to do about an old Radiogram? Ok Alan. it was just me-I've not had a lot of sc experience [as you can tell]. Had one set many years ago in which the sc holders seemed much more obviously different to regular valve bases so I was visually confused . Thanks very much for your response anyway. I'm still wondering why people seem to choose green [sometimes red] for a home "re-spray"? Dave Last edited by dave walsh; 17th May 2009 at 8:17 pm.

17th May 2009, 8:43 pm	#19
AlanBeckett Rest in Peace Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Burton upon Trent, East Staffordshire, UK. Posts: 1,686	Re: What to do about an old Radiogram? Dave, They're not always easy to spot with that type of holder as the base disapears into the holder, and the valve looks as though it's standing on the chassis, just like a normal valve. I don't know why green is/was so popular - perhaps it's a generation thing. 25 years ago we bought a house of a couple of (nice) old codgers, and almost evrything in there was green. I also potter about with old machine tools. Guess what the most popular colour for a repaint is? At least he doesn't have to remove Hammerite! Alan

18th May 2009, 12:21 am	#20
hans Heptode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Oslo, Norway. Posts: 632	Re: What to do about an old Radiogram? All valves are side contacts. After what i have read about these thy weren't popular in UK. After 1945 they were not used here either. The paint doesn't stick well to the original varnish. Maybe it is possible to get the paint off without. I'll investigate this a bit more. I can live with the original cabinet having a couple of scratches... Will ozone treatment kill the smell? It works well on smoke damaged goods I have heard.