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Components and Circuits For discussions about component types, alternatives and availability, circuit configurations and modifications etc. Discussions here should be of a general nature and not about specific sets. |
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31st Oct 2017, 8:12 pm | #1 |
Nonode
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Stockport, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 2,004
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To change plugs or not?
Recently I was looking at all the electrical equipment I have that didn't come with a pre-fitted plug. Many of them have unsleeved pins (thanks to my Dad recycling plugs when old devices were disposed of), & I was wondering it it's worth swapping them for more up to date plugs.
Most of them are either plugged into the wall & rarely removed, or things I only occasionally use so there is little chance I might accidentally touch a live pin. |
31st Oct 2017, 8:22 pm | #2 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 14,007
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Re: To change plugs or not?
I wouldn't bother: to be honest I suspect that in most cases a 1960s plug with unsheathed pins from a decent manufacturer [MK, Crabtree, Volex, GEC] would be safer [particularly at high current] than a modern cheapie from a typical high-street D-i-Y 'shed' even if it did have shielded pins.
If you must swap, go for a decent manufacturer - I'm a fan of the "MK646" plugs even though they're 3 or 4 times the cost of a cheap-and-nasty no-name equivalent. For things that are rarely removed [like fridges/freezers/laundry-appliances] I prefer fused connection units ['fused spur' outlets] over plugs-and-sockets wherever possible. |
31st Oct 2017, 8:38 pm | #3 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Biggin Hill, London, UK.
Posts: 5,215
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Re: To change plugs or not?
I often do replace the mains plug when restoring something (for my own use) but not because the old one has unsleeved pins. The sockets here are switched, and I turn off the switch before pulling the plug out. And to be fair I've been using 13A plugs since long before they had sleeved pins and never got a shock by touching said pins.
No, I replace no-name plugs (whether sleeved-pin or not) with decent brand ones (MK if I am fitting a new one). The extra cost is minimal compared to the other bits of the restoration, and the risk of the plug overheating or the isulation tracking is a lot higher than the risk of me touching the unsleeved pins. With relation to G6Tanuki's last point, I prefer a plug and socket for things like the washing machine. Mainly because when I am repairing said washing machine, I can pull the plug out and there is no way the appliance can then become live. A switch can get knocked, or break down. Very unlikely I know, so perhaps I am being over-cautious, but anyway. |
31st Oct 2017, 8:43 pm | #4 |
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 27,966
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Re: To change plugs or not?
The only exception to that advice is if there are young children around. I normally fit sleeved plugs now, but I wouldn't go around changing all the existing unsleeved ones.
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31st Oct 2017, 9:07 pm | #5 |
Nonode
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Stockport, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 2,004
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Re: To change plugs or not?
Thanks for the advice, one of the appliances is a tumble dryer which is normally plugged in at all times, & I turn the socket off when not in use.
As my flat is part owned I don't think I'm allowed to change any fittings without permission. The socket for the fridge freezer is remotely switched so I can turn it on & off without needing to get to the socket behind it. There is also one for a dishwasher wired up in one of the cupboards, but I don't have a dishwasher installed. |
31st Oct 2017, 9:53 pm | #6 |
Moderator
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Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK.
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Re: To change plugs or not?
Some local authorities insist that electrical appliances supplied to tenants in Houses of Multiple Occupation (Bed sits) must be fitted with plugs having sleeved pins.
At home I just use plugs with well known names such as MK, sleeved or not. Some of them must be nearly as old as me. I've scrapped a lot of no name modern plugs with sleeved pins.
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31st Oct 2017, 9:55 pm | #7 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 9,642
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Re: To change plugs or not?
Quote:
I binned the usual accumulation of assorted old plugs some time ago, but as above a few MKs survived. As they surface I change non-sleeved ones, but haven't deliberately searched for them. |
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31st Oct 2017, 10:19 pm | #8 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Croydon, Surrey, UK.
Posts: 7,578
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Re: To change plugs or not?
Just for info, unsleeved plug pins are still acceptable and legal for your own home use and don't need to be changed (as long as they are in good condition). It's illegal to sell them as they don't meet modern standards and should be removed from any appliances that are sold/passed on.
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31st Oct 2017, 11:07 pm | #9 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK.
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Re: To change plugs or not?
I remember that when the regs changed, I bought some cheap sleeved plugs, only to find they were ordinary plugs with short lengths of very thin black plastic sleeving slipped over the pins! The sleeving soon split and fell off. I binned them.
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31st Oct 2017, 11:46 pm | #10 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK.
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Re: To change plugs or not?
My local friendly PAT tester tells me that, where appliances are used 'at work', he is obliged to replace any plugs with unsleeved pins for the fully compliant type.
Some years ago I remember a scare where a batch of plugs had a defect - the top cover would come off when attempting to remove the plug from the socket, leaving the live connections exposed
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31st Oct 2017, 11:59 pm | #11 |
Hexode
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 499
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Re: To change plugs or not?
Regulations are not retrospective, so I doubt if that is true. Maybe the company he works for requires it but that does make it a legal requirement.
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1st Nov 2017, 6:01 am | #12 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Biggin Hill, London, UK.
Posts: 5,215
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Re: To change plugs or not?
Quote:
As I said earlier, I'd much rather use a non-sleeved known-brand (MK, etc) than one of those. |
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1st Nov 2017, 6:10 am | #13 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Biggin Hill, London, UK.
Posts: 5,215
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Re: To change plugs or not?
Quote:
For example, it's (rightly) illegal to sell an electrical device with exposed live parts. But if it's illegal to have exposed live parts at home than just about all of us break the law at some point when doing repairs. |
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1st Nov 2017, 8:25 am | #14 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 4,748
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Re: To change plugs or not?
Not illegal as such, but as has been pointed out, your home insurance policy or even life assurance policy may have some relevant clauses in it - worth checking.
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Phil Optimist [n]: One who is not in possession of the full facts |
1st Nov 2017, 9:56 am | #15 | |
Moderator
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Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK.
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Re: To change plugs or not?
Quote:
In my opinion people are unduly concerned about the perceived dangers of mains plugs and sockets, to the extent of buying dummy plastic plugs to fit in the sockets, but never consider the real danger presented by lamp holders. http://www.fatallyflawed.org.uk/
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Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron. |
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1st Nov 2017, 10:37 am | #16 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 13,454
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Re: To change plugs or not?
If a table lamp isn't fitted with a bulb would it be classed as faulty?
Lawrence. |
1st Nov 2017, 10:49 am | #17 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 5,554
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Re: To change plugs or not?
We need to avoid talking about table lamps or else we will end up having to change them all for ones with non replaceable bulbs.
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1st Nov 2017, 10:52 am | #18 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oxfordshire, UK.
Posts: 4,311
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Re: To change plugs or not?
Quote:
When I spoke to Trading Standards about this (admittedly quite a few years ago now) they explained that the law only requires equipment to be 'safe' when it is sold, and that ultimately the decision about whether it is safe or not rests with the courts. Within the restrictions of the UK's legal system (precedent etc) the courts are free to make those decisions on a case-by-case basis. So they are free to decide that a table lamp without a bulb is safe (enough) and that another piece of equipment which you or I decide is equally safe is actually not safe (enough). It's their decision, and no-one else's. There is of course a good deal of more detailed legislation which covers certain areas. Since the 1980s new equipment and 'remanufactured' equipment, for example, has to be CE marked which involves an assertion by the manufacturer that the equipment is compliant with the 'harmonised standards'. Manufacturers are also obliged to support that assertion with evidence. But CE marking is not required for equipment which predates its introduction. That equipment is only required to be 'safe'. Trading Standards did explain that if a seller was to modify a piece of equipment so that it met the current harmonised standards and was to present evidence to this effect to the court then that would constitute a very strong defence against a claim that they'd sold something unsafe. But it seems to me that doing any sort of half-way job in this respect would need careful thought on the part of anyone who wanted watertight protection. They would need to be confident that, among other things, a) they could convince a court that by changing the kit they hadn't 'remanufactured' it (this is to do with making material changes) and b) by making things 'more safe' they hadn't misled the new owner into thinking that the kit was now 'safe to modern standards' which it still might not be. Cheers, GJ
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1st Nov 2017, 1:47 pm | #19 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lynton, N. Devon, UK.
Posts: 7,088
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Re: To change plugs or not?
New equipment has to be sold with a plug fitted, and it has to be a sleeved-pin plug. That's law.
If the equipment is a table lamp, that you can remove the bayonet bulb from without the use of tools, stick your fingers in and get a belt, yes that's legally allowable but the plug still needs to be sleeved pins. It sounds a bit inconsistent, and it is. Though it's probably more likely that someone would inadvertently wrap their fingers around the plug and contact the pins while pulling it out / pushing it in, than remove the bulb and touch the live contacts. (I don't think I've done either, by the way). My own equipment? All the 'old stuff,' I try to get decent MK Bakelite plugs for, and fit them. I hate the rubber plugs, which seem to distort, they were never very good. Modern stuff, I stay with whatever's fitted! |
1st Nov 2017, 2:49 pm | #20 |
Nonode
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Stockport, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 2,004
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Re: To change plugs or not?
I remember my Mum's Kenwood mixer was the first thing we had with a moulded on plug.
Once it went to be fixed & came back with a different plug on because the engineer couldn't sign it off with unsleeved pins. Talking of rubber plugs, the one on a Trio amplifier I have is looking a bit past its best so I might go and replace it to be on the safe side. |