Radio 4 and "Five Live" on vintage radio

[Richard675]

Does anyone know what type of modulation is used on 693/909 kHz for "Five Live" ?These days it reminds me somewhat of the old Voice of America 'sound'.

Also, BBC R4 LW seems to have a very wide/very full audio bandwidth, more processing I suppose, almost as if my receiver bandwidth isn't quite wide enough!

I am listening on a Grundig Elite Boy 1974 era.

[paulsherwin]

All UK AM broadcasts have heavy audio processing applied, partly to maximise modulation levels and partly to give a 'punchy' sound which broadcasters are convinced listeners prefer.

Five Live also suffers from phase distortion from adjacent transmitters, especially after dark. The old Radio 1 1247kHz network now used by Absolute Radio is even worse in this respect.

Paul

[Richard675]

Paul

'punchy' sound which broadcasters are convinced listeners prefer.

yes, this actually limits the amount of time I can listen to "five live". Just simply horrible mod.

Five Live also suffers from phase distortion from adjacent transmitters, especially after dark. The old Radio 1 1247kHz network now used by Absolute Radio is even worse in this respect.

ahh yes, and don't forget the wailing trumpets from Radio Tirana at sign on, also on 247m heard from as early as 1600z in the winter.......dear listeners!

As a child I could never understand what was happening, blamed the radio..

[Station X]

I always thought that R4 was the only BBC radio station which didn't use any form of speech compression or processing,

[electrogram]

the sound quality of five live is very good at all times, I find, but R4 on LW is truly appalling most of the time, why is it not as good as five live? there is no valid excuse for this, it is due to incopetence/indifference at the BBC, or perhaps something more sinister, hope I don't get my post removed again when commenting on this subject

[Station X]

By all means discuss the technical quality of broadcasts, but don't turn this thread into a rant about the BBC, government, Castle transmitters, the EU etc. We've been there and done that several times already.

[paulsherwin]

There seem to have been ongoing problems with R4 LW modulation for several years now. Mostly it's fine, but sometimes it sounds very grainy and unpleasant.

Please don't turn this thread into a general moan about the BBC and falling technical standards. That would be OT for the forum, and will result in the thread being closed.

Paul

[Nickthedentist]

Originally Posted by Station X

I always thought that R4 was the only BBC radio station which didn't use any form of speech compression or processing,

They definitely use LOADS on LW. Just listen to the Big Ben chimes at 6pm and the newsreader that talks over them. It sounds like the automatic recording-level control on a cheap 1970s Hong-Kong cassette recorder!

(Not a complaint... I can see why they do it. But a world apart from how it sounds on FM).

Buy an SSTran modulator. Then you can feed it with a high quality signal and choose how much compression you apply, if any.

Nick.

[Alan Stepney]

Oddly enough, listen to the World Service in the early hours and it sounds fine.

I wonder why there is a difference (unless it is my ears)?

[G8HQP Dave]

Don't forget that R4 LW modulation has to cope with a very narrowband antenna, which I believe requires pre-distortion of the modulation. Also they have to leave some carrier at negative audio peaks because this is a standard frequency transmission and it carries slow phase modulation for various reasons.

Then there are co-channel transmitters up in Scotland so if you live in the wrong place or turn your ferrite rod the wrong way you could get selective cancellation of the carrier or one sideband which will muck up the perceived modulation.

[Oldtimer74]

Listen to R3 on VHF. I don`t think there is any processing there (unlike classic FM)
Pat G3IKR

[kalee20]

I can accept the LW transmitting aerial imposes limitations on the audio bandwidth, as the audio frequencies are a significant fraction of the transmitted frequency 198kHz. But pre-distortion implies a non-linear effect which I'm having difficulty accepting!

Before 1978, the LW transmitter was, of course, the music station Radio 2, and I don't remember the sound quality being bad then.

[paulsherwin]

Originally Posted by Oldtimer74

Listen to R3 on VHF. I don`t think there is any processing there (unlike classic FM)
Pat G3IKR

There is compression and limiting on R3 FM, especially during the evening 'drivetime' slot, but it is less heavily processed than the other BBC radio networks. Even the R3 digital feeds are processed.

Paul

[Richard675]

Originally Posted by paulsherwin

There is compression and limiting on R3 FM, especially during the evening 'drivetime' slot, but it is less heavily processed than the other BBC radio networks. Even the R3 digital feeds are processed.

Paul

I'm sure R3 only added compression etc once Classic FM got under way. Before that I struggled to hear any R3 FM in the car as the audio was just too flat.

However the processing isn't as much as Classic FM.

Anyone noticed if the commercials on fm stations are made louder than the progs, like on satellite tv?

[Aub]

Originally Posted by paulsherwin

The old Radio 1 1247kHz network now used by Absolute Radio

Paul

That's spooky init? Radio 1 used to be on 247 metres

[geofy]

247 The light program !

Radio Five sounds like they use old carbon telephone microphones all the time.
The World Service which did use to have a lot of analogue telephone correspondents now sound a lot better than Radio Five.

Geof

[chipp1968]

Strangely I havnt noticed problems with R4 on longwave that I can think of . I listen to it mostly on my HMV 907 and it seams very good . but the set does produce good output . I was listening to my 1939 ever ready battery set outside while doing work yesterday and the BIG ben chimes were sounding lovely and full from it .
I have noticed very poor sound quality on a number of MW programes though especially the music ones , quite distorted and I cant be bothered to listen to them.

[Mach One]

Originally Posted by Oldtimer74

Listen to R3 on VHF. I don`t think there is any processing there (unlike classic FM)
Pat G3IKR

All BBC Analogue radio has some form of processing applied - in differing amounts - and generally intelligently. Even DAB has some I understand, but the satellite feeds and Freeview are not all processed.

All BBC AM transmitters are limited in their upper frequency response to somewhere between 5.5 and 6.5kHz unfortunately, by international agreement to reduce the likelyhood of interference to neighbouring transmissions - although only a few of the more obedient European countries seems to follow this ruling.

[Richard675]

I've been listening to the other LW adjacent stations, France, Eire etc and their mod sounds "cleaner" that BBC R4. I note the sound of "s" can sound distorted from some speech. (there is a technical word for this but I've forgotten what it is) It sounds at times like the transmitted af bandwidth is too wide for my receiver! This cannot be the case due to technical reasons already described.

[Sideband]

Originally Posted by Richard Witney

(there is a technical word for this but I've forgotten what it is)

...sibilance??

Some radio's seem to be able to cope with compression better than others. As an example, my Superinductance set that uses an anode bend detector has trouble with most of the music stations. R1 and Gold are particularly bad. However R4 and FiveLive sound good with R4 probably best.

However a much later radio like a Stella ST160 sounds fine on most AM.

Rich.