Whats my Daughter done? (Fidelity HF3). - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

porky pie · 8th Apr 2009, 10:54 pm

Hiya. My daughter has just purchased a Fidelity "HF3" record player. I feel fairly confident about tackling the mechanicals. I may be able to enlist the expertise of a local chap, who is most talented with the old valves.

I gather from the model number it is an early one. Does any one know whether or not we have made a wise choice? Does it have any or many short comings? I would appreciate any advice. Thanks.

Darren-UK · 9th Apr 2009, 11:15 am

Hi,

I can't find out anything at all about the Fidelity HF3, although I believe such a model did exist. As an aside and without wishing to sound patronising, are you certain this is a Fidelity? There was a Defiant HF3 which had the wording "Hi-Fidelity" on the front panel adjacent to the 'speaker grille which could cause confusion.

Whatever, assuming this is indeed a Fidelity HF3, I can only speak generally about these - given lack of available information.

Fidelity were akin to Dansette in that they were built to a price and thus were at the lower end of the quality ladder. Your machine is unlikely to have more than two valves (three at most), one of which may be a rectifer. There'll be a reservoir/smoothing electrolytic, one of two other capacitors, a resistor or two and an output transformer. There may or may not be a mains dropper or a mains transformer. That will be it; very simple and very easy to work upon.

I note you mention a local chap. If you decide to have a go at this yourself, however, remember high voltages will be present and that capacitors hold their charge for a time after the mains is disconnected. You should also check/have checked that the reservoir/smoothing cap is fit for purpose before applying power. They can explode.

On the matter of the deck, a search of the forums will yield plenty of information on the work needed on these.

One problem you may likely encounter is the pickup cartridge. If the tonearm is still fitted with an old crystal cartridge, it may need replacing.

This will be a mono machine; do not attempt to play stereo records on it (unless a modern stereo-compliant cartridge/stylus if fitted and do not attempt to play any cherished or valuable records on it.

So you've made a wise choice providing you only intend to use it for playing old, non-valuable mono records. Shortcomings are that it's an old Fidelity, basically, with mediocre performance and bottom-of-the-ladder quality.

It'd be advantageous if you could post an image of the machine. We could then see what deck it has and comment in more detail regarding possible faults and repairs.

Tom_I · 9th Apr 2009, 12:04 pm

I'm guessing that it's this machine, in which case it has a BSR Monarch autochanger (UA8? - I'm never very good on BSR model numbers). It looks to have a TC8 turnover cartridge, probably just a mono one, so note Darren's comments above.

porky pie · 10th Apr 2009, 10:39 am

Well spotted Tom I. That is the actual player in question. It's up and running, the electronics seem fine, little bit of a hum but I suspect that is normal. It runs very slow, this may be dried up grease, idler wheel or something like that. The turntable paper instructions do say it is Monarch. BSR is written on the tone arm and it does look like it has a crystal pick-up. Is it possible to fit a stereo compatible cartridge/stylus? Again I would appreciate advice.

Many thanks.

Darren-UK · 10th Apr 2009, 1:02 pm

You should be able to fit an SC12M/H but these have four terminals instead of two. For best performance you'd need to couple the two sets of pins. The SC12 family are flipover stylus types, so you'd lose the little knob on the front of the tonearm - unless you somehow retained it as a cosmetic dummy.

Have a read of this thread. There's another thread too, in which I posted a crude sketch showing how to link the pins of an SC12 for use in a mono machine.

Tom_I · 10th Apr 2009, 4:04 pm

I agree that it would be a good idea to fit a stereo cartridge, as you wouldn't then be so limited in what you could play on the machine, though bear in mind that an autochanger like the UA8 will never be particularly 'kind' to your discs.

One thing you may have to consider is how the output of a replacement cartridge will match with your player's amplifier. The mono BSR TC8 you have came in at least two versions (possibly more). If memory serves (and don't take this as gospel) the cartridge body of the TC8M medium output version is brown in colour, while the high output TC8H is red.

If you have the medium output one, then the BSR SC12H suggested above may well be OK, though that is a ceramic, rather than crystal cartridge. The output may be a bit low, and you may find it better to wire the channels in series to get enough volume (see Darren's link above). If you need a higher output, you can still get the BSR SX6M crystal stereo cartridge from the likes of Musonic, who also sell the SC12 types.

There is, or rather was, a stereo version of the TC8 (pictured here), if you wanted to retain the turnover knob, but these haven't been made for many years, though you might be lucky and find one.

Another possibility for a turnover type is the Ronette 105. Musonic sell a remanufactured version of this cartridge. On the downside, I have heard of some problems with these, and I'm not sure how well they would fit in the BSR headshell. Maybe someone on the forum has tried it?

porky pie · 14th Apr 2009, 3:55 pm

Wgratefullell i'm cracking on with this player,the cartridge ordered etc.I am very impressed with the way the turn table mechanism works.The reason the turntable is turning slow,is that the gromits that the electric motor is secured onto is worn/soft/perished.This means the motor hangs down to far and the gearing is "one speed out".I'guessing these gromits are not available?You may know otherwise.I'm sure I can make something to do if they are not.I am really gratefull for all the help you are giving me,it makes this project more enjoyable.Thanks.

Ed_Dinning · 14th Apr 2009, 8:53 pm

Hi the grommets may still be available, but are probably an imperial size. Try posting a pic and a request here and you may get lucky.

Ed

af024 · 15th Apr 2009, 5:05 pm

To compensate, you may be able to lift the pulley up the motor shaft (assuming it's fixed with grub screw(s)). I got away with this approach on a similar BSR deck recently.

Best of luck,

Andy

porky pie · 15th Apr 2009, 7:10 pm

Thanks very much for that, I didn't see the grub screw. I packed it out with washers and finely adjusted it by loosening the grub screw and adjusting the pulley. I've got a Ronet 105 cartridge. It's 4 pole marked 1,2,3,4. Can anyone recommend the best way to connect it i.e. series or parallel and what do the 1,2,3,4 equate to?

Thanks, PP

Tom_I · 16th Apr 2009, 7:09 pm

The Ronette cartridge wiring has been covered in this thread (see post #7).

I'd wire the channels in parallel to start with. If you think you need more volume, then try them in series.

8th Apr 2009, 10:54 pm	#1
porky pie Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: PENZANCE Posts: 4	Whats my Daughter done? (Fidelity HF3). Hiya. My daughter has just purchased a Fidelity "HF3" record player. I feel fairly confident about tackling the mechanicals. I may be able to enlist the expertise of a local chap, who is most talented with the old valves. I gather from the model number it is an early one. Does any one know whether or not we have made a wise choice? Does it have any or many short comings? I would appreciate any advice. Thanks.

9th Apr 2009, 11:15 am	#2
Darren-UK Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Blackpool, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 4,061	Re: Whats my Daughter done? Hi, I can't find out anything at all about the Fidelity HF3, although I believe such a model did exist. As an aside and without wishing to sound patronising, are you certain this is a Fidelity? There was a Defiant HF3 which had the wording "Hi-Fidelity" on the front panel adjacent to the 'speaker grille which could cause confusion. Whatever, assuming this is indeed a Fidelity HF3, I can only speak generally about these - given lack of available information. Fidelity were akin to Dansette in that they were built to a price and thus were at the lower end of the quality ladder. Your machine is unlikely to have more than two valves (three at most), one of which may be a rectifer. There'll be a reservoir/smoothing electrolytic, one of two other capacitors, a resistor or two and an output transformer. There may or may not be a mains dropper or a mains transformer. That will be it; very simple and very easy to work upon. I note you mention a local chap. If you decide to have a go at this yourself, however, remember high voltages will be present and that capacitors hold their charge for a time after the mains is disconnected. You should also check/have checked that the reservoir/smoothing cap is fit for purpose before applying power. They can explode. On the matter of the deck, a search of the forums will yield plenty of information on the work needed on these. One problem you may likely encounter is the pickup cartridge. If the tonearm is still fitted with an old crystal cartridge, it may need replacing. This will be a mono machine; do not attempt to play stereo records on it (unless a modern stereo-compliant cartridge/stylus if fitted and do not attempt to play any cherished or valuable records on it. So you've made a wise choice providing you only intend to use it for playing old, non-valuable mono records. Shortcomings are that it's an old Fidelity, basically, with mediocre performance and bottom-of-the-ladder quality. It'd be advantageous if you could post an image of the machine. We could then see what deck it has and comment in more detail regarding possible faults and repairs.

9th Apr 2009, 12:04 pm	#3
Tom_I Heptode Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: North Herts. UK. Posts: 549	Re: Whats my Daughter done? I'm guessing that it's this machine, in which case it has a BSR Monarch autochanger (UA8? - I'm never very good on BSR model numbers). It looks to have a TC8 turnover cartridge, probably just a mono one, so note Darren's comments above. Attached Thumbnails

10th Apr 2009, 10:39 am	#4
porky pie Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: PENZANCE Posts: 4	Re: Whats my Daughter done? Well spotted Tom I. That is the actual player in question. It's up and running, the electronics seem fine, little bit of a hum but I suspect that is normal. It runs very slow, this may be dried up grease, idler wheel or something like that. The turntable paper instructions do say it is Monarch. BSR is written on the tone arm and it does look like it has a crystal pick-up. Is it possible to fit a stereo compatible cartridge/stylus? Again I would appreciate advice. Many thanks.

10th Apr 2009, 1:02 pm	#5
Darren-UK Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Blackpool, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 4,061	Re: Whats my Daughter done? You should be able to fit an SC12M/H but these have four terminals instead of two. For best performance you'd need to couple the two sets of pins. The SC12 family are flipover stylus types, so you'd lose the little knob on the front of the tonearm - unless you somehow retained it as a cosmetic dummy. Have a read of this thread. There's another thread too, in which I posted a crude sketch showing how to link the pins of an SC12 for use in a mono machine.

10th Apr 2009, 4:04 pm	#6
Tom_I Heptode Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: North Herts. UK. Posts: 549	Re: Whats my Daughter done? I agree that it would be a good idea to fit a stereo cartridge, as you wouldn't then be so limited in what you could play on the machine, though bear in mind that an autochanger like the UA8 will never be particularly 'kind' to your discs. One thing you may have to consider is how the output of a replacement cartridge will match with your player's amplifier. The mono BSR TC8 you have came in at least two versions (possibly more). If memory serves (and don't take this as gospel) the cartridge body of the TC8M medium output version is brown in colour, while the high output TC8H is red. If you have the medium output one, then the BSR SC12H suggested above may well be OK, though that is a ceramic, rather than crystal cartridge. The output may be a bit low, and you may find it better to wire the channels in series to get enough volume (see Darren's link above). If you need a higher output, you can still get the BSR SX6M crystal stereo cartridge from the likes of Musonic, who also sell the SC12 types. There is, or rather was, a stereo version of the TC8 (pictured here), if you wanted to retain the turnover knob, but these haven't been made for many years, though you might be lucky and find one. Another possibility for a turnover type is the Ronette 105. Musonic sell a remanufactured version of this cartridge. On the downside, I have heard of some problems with these, and I'm not sure how well they would fit in the BSR headshell. Maybe someone on the forum has tried it?

14th Apr 2009, 3:55 pm	#7
porky pie Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: PENZANCE Posts: 4	Re: Whats my Daughter done? Wgratefullell i'm cracking on with this player,the cartridge ordered etc.I am very impressed with the way the turn table mechanism works.The reason the turntable is turning slow,is that the gromits that the electric motor is secured onto is worn/soft/perished.This means the motor hangs down to far and the gearing is "one speed out".I'guessing these gromits are not available?You may know otherwise.I'm sure I can make something to do if they are not.I am really gratefull for all the help you are giving me,it makes this project more enjoyable.Thanks.

14th Apr 2009, 8:53 pm	#8
Ed_Dinning Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK. Posts: 8,195	Re: Whats my Daughter done? Hi the grommets may still be available, but are probably an imperial size. Try posting a pic and a request here and you may get lucky. Ed

15th Apr 2009, 5:05 pm	#9
af024 Octode Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ashby-de-la-Zouch (it's not by the sea) Posts: 1,255	Re: Whats my Daughter done? To compensate, you may be able to lift the pulley up the motor shaft (assuming it's fixed with grub screw(s)). I got away with this approach on a similar BSR deck recently. Best of luck, Andy __________________ Now where on earth did I remove that from?

15th Apr 2009, 7:10 pm	#10
porky pie Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: PENZANCE Posts: 4	Re: Whats my Daughter done? Thanks very much for that, I didn't see the grub screw. I packed it out with washers and finely adjusted it by loosening the grub screw and adjusting the pulley. I've got a Ronet 105 cartridge. It's 4 pole marked 1,2,3,4. Can anyone recommend the best way to connect it i.e. series or parallel and what do the 1,2,3,4 equate to? Thanks, PP

16th Apr 2009, 7:09 pm	#11
Tom_I Heptode Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: North Herts. UK. Posts: 549	Re: Whats my Daughter done? (Fidelity HF3). The Ronette cartridge wiring has been covered in this thread (see post #7). I'd wire the channels in parallel to start with. If you think you need more volume, then try them in series.