Bsr Monarch repair help

[valve boy 5]

Hi everyone ,I hope im in the correct forum for this if not apologys.
I have a pye black box with a Bsr Monarch autochanger ,it has been working ok but last night I stupidly tried to change speed from 33 rpm to 78 rpm whilst the thing was running !!
Now the thing makes a clunking noise when run at 78 ,its slow at 33 rpm and runs at 33 rpm at 45 speed !!
I really need someone to have a look at this poor machine ,Im in HERTS just outside N.W.London and can travel with it ,if someone does a repair service or any tips greatly appreciated . Thank you
Roy

[geofy]

No they don't have synchromesh! Chances are the stepped metal pulley has moved on the motor spindle, the turntable will have to be removed, and the pulley moved to its original position, this might be shown by corresponding marks on the turntable rim. Or the rubber idler might have been pulled out of shape.

Geof

[valve boy 5]

Originally Posted by geofy

No they don't have synchromesh! Chances are the stepped metal pulley has moved on the motor spindle, the turntable will have to be removed, and the pulley moved to its original position, this might be shown by corresponding marks on the turntable rim. Or the rubber idler might have been pulled out of shape.

Geof

Hi Geoff ,thanks for the swift reply ,I did have a spare idle wheel ,which i used to replace the one that was already there .Same problem.I cleaned the wheel and inside of platter with Isopropyl alcohol , so no tell tale sign's left !
The metal pulley idea sounds possible ,thank you for the time and tips .

[ALANS ANITAS]

Hi

Do a search on this forum for BSR Monarch. You should find the answer amongst the various postings.

Regards

ALAN

[ben]

sounds like the speed change mech has jumped out of synch, and the idler wheel is riding too high or the speed switch is not raising or lowering the idler properly.

there is sometimes a toothed 'rack', activated by sliding the speed switch, which engages with a toothed wheel or cam, which is 'stepped' to raise/lower the idler to the steps on the motor pulley. (others with circular designs use a rod). some pics of the deck's underside would help us see what is going on.

I suspect the real cause of all this was poor lubrication, as changing speeds in playback on BSRs is never usually a problem.

[valve boy 5]

Originally Posted by ben

sounds like the speed change mech has jumped out of synch, and the idler wheel is riding too high or the speed switch is not raising or lowering the idler properly.

there is sometimes a toothed 'rack', activated by sliding the speed switch, which engages with a toothed wheel or cam, which is 'stepped' to raise/lower the idler to the steps on the motor pulley. (others with circular designs use a rod). some pics of the deck's underside would help us see what is going on.

I suspect the real cause of all this was poor lubrication, as changing speeds in playback on BSRs is never usually a problem.

Thank you fellas for taking time to respond ,the Bsr Monarch I have is the one with the "PYE" badge on the back of the arm.
edit " have had a bit of a fiddle with it ,all speeds now run slow !

I noticed the metal pulley that the idle wheel runs against has some play (you can pull it up and down ), I did give all moving parts a light coating of singer sewing machine oil ,should I fiddle with the pulley (there seems to be a couple of small screws fixing it to the shaft or is the adjustment elsewhere ?

[julie_m]

Originally Posted by valve boy 5

the Bsr Monarch I have is the one with the "PYE" badge on the back of the arm.

If the steadying arm is on the left hand side and has a slotted hole through which the spindle passes, then the changer is a UA6. If the steadying arm is on the left hand side and shaped like a reversed letter "f" with one prong sitting either side of the centre spindle, then it's a UA8. If the steadying arm is on the right hand side, then it could be one of several later models -- we'd need a picture to be sure.

Originally Posted by valve boy 5

I did give all moving parts a light coating of singer sewing machine oil

Please, please tell me you didn't get any oil on the moving part attached to the large cog wheel that mates with the teeth on the inside of the turntable, nor anywhere near any rubber parts (idler, motor mountings &c).

If you did, wipe it off with white spirit, then wipe again with a dry tissue. The end-of-record detection system (aka "velocity trip") relies on metal-to-metal friction for its operation, and any oil in it will cause strange behaviour: this may manifest variously as mistracking, falsely tripping in the middle of a record or not tripping at the end of a record. Oil will attack rubber, slowly but surely, and you definitely don't want anything slippery around the idler.

[valve boy 5]

ok , it's a UA6 (Slotted arm ,left hand side ) no oil on idle wheel apart from a small dab on spindle it spins on ,have cleaned outer rim of rubber wheel , the timing mechanism you speak off ,I assume is the very large cogged wheel on the base of the unit that if you move ,moves the arm?

Just played some records ,and the latest is this
at 78 speed - it plays 45rpm with a slight waver

at 45 - it plays 33 rpm very well

at 33 - it plays to slow for anything

any suggestions great received ,and thanks again everyone for taking the time to help

[Nickthedentist]

As others have implied, it sounds like the motor's pulley is too low, a common problem with these. Loosen the two screws, raise it a bit and re-tighten.

With the turntable off, check that the rubber idler sits nice and evenly on the largest/middle/smallest parts of the pulley when 78/45/33 is selected.

Nick.

[valve boy 5]

Hi Nick ,I will try that and report back thanks a lot

[julie_m]

Originally Posted by valve boy 5

the timing mechanism you speak off ,I assume is the very large cogged wheel on the base of the unit that if you move ,moves the arm?

That's the one. Note if you move it by hand, it will disrupt the changer operation -- next time the motor starts up, it will be partway through a cycle, which it will want to complete before doing anything else.

[valve boy 5]

Gentlemen ! Thank you so much for the wise information ,the pulley had slipped ,i slacked off screws ,moved it up and all seems well! I also have removed the oil and what looks like some original grease from the cog !Thanks again ,Im happy now !

[geofy]

Thought that was the problem, and I can't agree with the moving the control without stopping first even though it can be fun to play a record on the wrong speed, something those with cds miss out on

[Nickthedentist]

Well done!

I had a 1950s Pye Black Box which used this deck when I was at primary school. This exact problem used to happen every few months, and my dad would always fix it for me. One day though, I got fed up with waiting for him and managed to do it myself, probably my first successful attempt at audio repair.

N.

[electrogram]

Originally Posted by geofy

Thought that was the problem, and I can't agree with the moving the control without stopping first even though it can be fun to play a record on the wrong speed, something those with cds miss out on

I think on this model of deck the idler wheel does not retract from the motor pulley when switched off, or when changing speed, so it might be better to change speed while the motor/turntable is running, especially when changing from a low speed to a higher one?

[geofy]

I think on this model of deck the idler wheel does not retract from the motor pulley when switched off,

I have not come across a model that keeps the idler in contact but in this case it would be better to change when running if that is the type.

Geof