Unknown cast iron 2Kw electric fire

[Atlantic 52]

Hello to all,
I bought this vitreous enamel over cast iron electric fire in 2018 at a local car boot sale. I have not been able to identify the manufacturer as it doesn't seem to have any markings. Maybe the label came off many years back. I have yet to remove its back and sort it out. I wondered if anyone might be able to identify it?
Many thanks,
George

[paulsherwin]

I don't know the maker, but that design was very common at one time. I would caution against trying to return one of these to actual use - they are dangerous for a number of reasons, and aren't very effective as portable heaters anyway. People used to do terrifying things with them, such as holding a slice of bread an inch away from the elements with a metal toasting fork.

[60 oldjohn]

I wonder if it is a Brightglow LTD product ?


John.

[G6Tanuki]

Originally Posted by paulsherwin

I don't know the maker, but that design was very common at one time. I would caution against trying to return one of these to actual use - they are dangerous for a number of reasons, and aren't very effective as portable heaters anyway. People used to do terrifying things with them, such as holding a slice of bread an inch away from the elements with a metal toasting fork.

We did worse things with similar heaters in my student-days: like laying them on their backs and putting a kettle, saucepan or frying-pan on the now-horizontal 'guard' rails!

Apart from an occasional boiling-over incident, we all seemed to survive.

[paulsherwin]

That's a bit like the "bears can't climb trees" belief - lots of bears can climb trees, but the people hiding in the tree never survive to report it.

That's not to say we didn't all do highly questionable things and survived when young and stupid though - some of us still do

[TonyDuell]

I have a 1939-40 Belling catalogue here. It contains an electric fire called the 'DInkie' with similar flat fireclay block elements and minimal guards. The desicription of it includes '... has a flat top for keeping food, milk, etc warm. When laid on its back a kettle can be boiled quickly'.

So such 'misuse' of at least some electric fires was recomended by the manufacturer.

[Megatron]

Best place for that is in a skip but i am biassed.....
I recently was given one of these and apart from having asbestos inside which I thought would be fine left undisturbed I could see no reason why not to use it in the workshop while attended for occasional use. Cut a long story short I managed to knock it over within 5 minutes of plugging it in, which caused element to guard contact,RCBO popped out which is in the house. Hot heater melted the mat in the shed. It was a VERY dark night and I had to feel my way to the house. It went in the scrap pile the next morning.

[gezza123]

Ah you could turn it into a loverly display piece.

Take out the elements and the complete wiring, then put
in the front a piece of cooker glass and put two small pigmy
bulbs/led flicker lights behind the dark glass.
I think it would look very nice.

Here is one I done for the good lady.
Two lamp holders
Two pigmy bulbs
Bag off fire coals
Small sheet off fire red resistant transparent Acetate Gel
Lenght of new cotton flex.
gezza123

[Paul_RK]

Ah. Is there any chance of a trigger warning for threads containing instances of upcycling?

[AC/HL]

Not really, see here: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...66#post1202766

[Herald1360]

Originally Posted by paulsherwin

- they are dangerous for a number of reasons, and aren't very effective as portable heaters anyway.

Yes.... but I've never understood claims of their ineffectiveness. 2kW of heat into the room is 2kW of heat whether it's from a central heating radiator, gas fire or ancient electric heater. Or is it just that 2kW isn't that much anyway?



Cost effectiveness- now that could be argued, though not in the context of any other electric heater of similar rating.

[Sideband]

I thought the '2kW' (or whatever) rating was the power consumption, not the amount of radiated heat? So it seems reasonable that on old 2kW heater could be less efficient (in other words radiate less heat for the 2kW consumption) than a more modern heater using modern materials. An example might be the 'radiant' type that use a huge reflector behind the element. I seem to recall that a 2kW version of one of these gave a huge amount of heat compared to the old convection type.

[peter_scott]

Originally Posted by paulsherwin

People used to do terrifying things with them, such as holding a slice of bread an inch away from the elements with a metal toasting fork.

I suppose the survivors were the ones whose Darwinian instincts always directed their forks to neutral ends of the elements. ELCBs will make these fires rather safer than they once were.

Peter

[Dave Moll]

Originally Posted by Sideband

I thought the '2kW' (or whatever) rating was the power consumption, not the amount of radiated heat? So it seems reasonable that on old 2kW heater could be less efficient (in other words radiate less heat for the 2kW consumption) than a more modern heater using modern materials. An example might be the 'radiant' type that use a huge reflector behind the element. I seem to recall that a 2kW version of one of these gave a huge amount of heat compared to the old convection type.

Surely, the total amount of heat must be 2KW (less the odd Watt or so radiated is light, and even that is presumably absorbed and re-radiated as heat), otherwise how is the conservation of energy maintained. Whether that heat ends up where it is actually wanted is a different matter. A reflector merely directs the heat in a particular direction rather than amplifying it in any way.

[Sideband]

So maybe it's just the design that affects the amount of heat radiated...like you say just how much is radiated as heat where it is wanted. The radiant heaters with a reflector push all the heat in one direction so they 'appear' to be more efficient. I suppose it could be that you might not need to run a radiant heater for as long to generate the heat where you need it.......?

[Test Desk]

Originally Posted by paulsherwin

I don't know the maker, but that design was very common at one time. I would caution against trying to return one of these to actual use - they are dangerous for a number of reasons, and aren't very effective as portable heaters anyway. People used to do terrifying things with them, such as holding a slice of bread an inch away from the elements with a metal toasting fork.

That reminds me of my brother in law, who always asked me to replace switches and sockets etc when they lived in the Midlands. He was a c!ever man who could turn his hand to most household jobs but had an experience as a child that scared him away from tinkering with electrics for life. Apparently his parents had a one bar coil-wound fire with not much in the way of a guard and he became curious to see if he could bear to hold the bar before it glowed red. So he did!
I think gezza's repurposed fire is a work of art and George's would benefit from similar treatment.

Dave

[paulsherwin]

Originally Posted by Sideband

So maybe it's just the design that affects the amount of heat radiated...like you say just how much is radiated as heat where it is wanted. The radiant heaters with a reflector push all the heat in one direction so they 'appear' to be more efficient. I suppose it could be that you might not need to run a radiant heater for as long to generate the heat where you need it.......?

That's exactly it. These old prewar 'electric fires' certainly dump 2kW of heat, but a lot of it goes into heating up the ceramic insulator and metal case so there is a delay before they have much effect on the room. Even when everything is up to temperature they work primarily as a convector heater and the radiant heat performance is pretty poor.

[ms660]

2kW is 2kW....but only when it's 2kW, quite often a "2 kW" heater will be putting more than 2kW into the room and quite often it will be putting less than 2kW into the room.

I've always found the convection type heater to be the best, got one here now putting a nominal 0.75kW into the living room which is approx. 6m x 3.6m with a high vaulted ceiling, two doors, three windows and a set of French windows.

Lawrence.

[Dave Moll]

Of course, the consumption/output of a given resistive element is proportional to the square of the voltage of the mains, so the range of permissible mains voltage of (if I recall correctly) 207.2V to 253V (230V +10%/-6%) would give a wattage of a fire rated 2KW at 240V (as it would have been then) ranging between 1.49KW and 2.22KW.

[julie_m]

Radiant heat heats any matter it "shines" on, whereas convected heat heats the air in the room. There is also conducted heat going into the mass of the heater itself ..... you can think of that as stored potential energy, which will be liberated into the air in the room when the heater is switched off.

The idea of combining radiant and convected heat into one unit is so that if you come indoors from the cold, you can switch on the fire and begin to feel warm straight away sitting in front of it; but by the time you move away from it, the room will have warmed up enough for you not immediately to feel cold again.