This forum

[Alan Stepney]

The funding question seems to be able to be resolved as enough people have expressed their willingness to make a contribution.

There just remains the other issues.

I have been thinking about the "missing" posts.
Although I have no details of them, I can imagine what I would delete were I a moderator here (and I am glad I am not!).

Just before each event at Harpenden, or RWB, Jeffrey (ppppenguin) usually posts a reminder about the Bring and Buy stall.
Others then post personal reminders such as "take ABC 23 for Fred, collect XYZ 32 from Bert".

Once that event is over, I can see no value in retaining such reminders.
It is too late to act upon them, and even with the best stretch of the imagination, I cannot see them being of interest to a future historian.
Hence a lot of posts have zero value and, I believe, SHOULD be deleted.

As for governance, my personal view is that a forum such as this can not be a democracy. It doesnt work.
I moderate a forum that recently had a similar "uprising of discontent" that we are seeing here.
From being a tightly run and regulated forum, according to rules instigated by the owner, it went to a more democratic system.
That suited a few, but others left as they didnt like the way it was run.
That caused even more arguments, with many people claiming they could run it better.
Eventually several went off and started their own forums (two of them).
At that point, the moderators convinced the owner that it wasnt working and it went back to some more sensible rules and moderation.

Of the two new boards it spawned, one failed very quickly.
The other, supposedly democratically run, eventually instigated rules and enforced them, and now staggers on with a few members and about 5 posts per day.
(The original had 1,500 members & 200+ posts daily.)

No. IMHO, the only way to run a forum such as this is to do as has been done up to now.
It wont suit everybody, but then, nothing will.

[glowinganode]

Originally Posted by Alan Stepney

The funding question seems to be able to be resolved as enough people have expressed their willingness to make a contribution.

Hi Alan, some good points, thanks.

However my concern is if fund raising is left to the good will of members, this good will may be lost if we are left feeling disenfranchised.
Offering an incentive is merely appealing to human nature, as much as I would love to share in the general utopian view of things.
Cheers,
Rob.

[ppppenguin]

Originally Posted by Alan Stepney

Just before each event at Harpenden, or RWB, Jeffrey (ppppenguin) usually posts a reminder about the Bring and Buy stall.
Others then post personal reminders such as "take ABC 23 for Fred, collect XYZ 32 from Bert".

Once that event is over, I can see no value in retaining such reminders.
It is too late to act upon them, and even with the best stretch of the imagination, I cannot see them being of interest to a future historian.
Hence a lot of posts have zero value and, I believe, SHOULD be deleted.

Alan, we have met and had interesting discussions on all sorts of things. I respect you immensely but I believe what you have said here is wrong. Your points on democracy, funding an governance are very sensible though we may not all agree. Some reasons for not deleting event related posts:

• These events and the related movements of kit are part of our collective history. We are a group whose raison d'etre is the preservation of history. Our history is as much about the people as the kit.
• The marginal cost of keeping such threads is utterly negligible.
• There is moderation effort, a scarce commodity, involved in choosing and deleting them.

[Radio_Dave]

Originally Posted by Robert Darwent

I for one have no intention of trying to write technically accurate posts, to the best of my ability, for the benefit of other members only to have them deleted without apparent just cause . Perhaps you are happy to waste your time, I am not.

I'm just trying to put an end to this pointless arguing about this forums rules and policies with a simple "take it or leave it option". I don't know if anybody has noticed, but the moderators are obviously tired of our moaning and have left the conversation. I do wonder if we've been given a piece of sting to hang ourselves?

Please refer back to Paul's post #6. Basically, this forum is interfering with Paul's livelihood and it could be closed down, in a matter of weeks. Why are we arguing about some inaccessible "junk" posts and other trivial matters when the whole forum could be lost forever?

Regards
David

[Nickthedentist]

Originally Posted by Radio_Dave

Why are we arguing about some inaccessible "junk" posts and other trivial matters when the whole forum could be lost forever?

First things first, I suppose.

[wireful3]

With regard to governance I too have no problems at all with present situation and I reiterate Dave's last comment.

If Paul has to close the Forum everything is academic.
The metaphysical arguments that the forum belongs to its members, who should control the policies seem pointless.

[ppppenguin]

Originally Posted by Radio_Dave

Please refer back to Paul's post #6. Basically, this forum is interfering with Paul's livelihood and it could be closed down, in a matter of weeks. Why are we arguing about some inaccessible "junk" posts and other trivial matters when the whole forum could be lost forever?

If UKVRR was to close, I would sincerely hope that the database was handed to somebody who was willing to keep it safe as an archive, visible to the public. Anything less would be an act of vandalism.

As several of us have said before, there are now a number of forums where we can discuss our interests so the loss of UKVRR would be a nuisance but no longer earth shattering [deliberate exaggeration, no smiley available for that] At the moment, I hope that I am arguing a devil's advocate position in saying that the best way forward would be to close UKVRR altogether.

[Radio_Dave]

Originally Posted by ppppenguin

As several of us have said before, there are now a number of forums where we can discuss our interests so the loss of UKVRR would be a nuisance but no longer earth shattering [deliberate exaggeration, no smiley available for that] At the moment, I hope that I am arguing a devil's advocate position in saying that the best way forward would be to close UKVRR altogether.

And of course, you just happen to be moderator of one of these forums!

There maybe alternatives to this forum but there are, definitely, no substitutes.

David

[ppppenguin]

Originally Posted by Radio_Dave

And of course, you just happen to be moderator of one of these forums!

Apologies for not declaring this openly. Many of you will be aware that I am a moderator (one of several) on the VRAT forum. I have no connection with GVR, other than as a member. I would hope that my attitude towards UKVRR shows in the totality and content of my posts.

Originally Posted by Radio_Dave

There maybe alternatives to this forum but there are, definitely, no substitutes.

UKVRR has devloped its own character and it is self evident that any other forum will be different, each with own unique focus. It is of the nature of life in general that organisations (I'm trying to find an all embracing word) wax and wane.

[AC/HL]

One off-the-cuff remark - Be careful what you wish for.

I can't speak for Paul, but if things were jogging along nicely until the thorny issue of deleted posts, which is one of the main philosophical arguments, how about making the "skip" available for paid download as is the service data. Those who are exercised by it can have the best of both worlds and the rest of us can settle down to the Status Quo.

[Top Cap]

I have been recommended the following:-
www.servage.net for £4.50 per month you get unlimited disc space and unlimited transfer bandwidth. Full php support suitable for this Forum plus sql databases which should satisfy the needs of the Forum. My friend has been using this service for 10 years and has watched them grow and improve to offer this service reliably. He has 10 separate websites hosted in the one account without any issue.

[Paul_RK]

Originally Posted by glowinganode

Paul, I don't dispute any of what you say, but please don't shoot me down at the first hurdle.
I'm just trying to find a solution that will work and be agreeable to all.
How about if the achive had a preview function, so it does appear on search engines, perhaps with reduced sized thumb nails and the first couple of lines of text.
In fact maybe something as simple as the size of photo accessible, I'd gladly pay to be able to post or view larger photo's.
Like it or not, the service is going to have to be paid for somehow, to keep the cash flowing some sort of incentive has to be offered.
Rob.

Hi Rob,

Absolutely no shooting down intended Just that from all I've gathered here the amount of cash required to secure hosting of the forum in a way that would make it less of a burden to Paul, and obviate the need to delete any old posts, would be in the order at most of £12 to £15 a week. For many of us that's an hour's pay. £12 to £15 a week between the hundreds of active members here. Certainly the service has to be paid for somehow, I'm just thinking that the best way to pay for it would be through no-strings donations from folks who, like myself, may not agree with all aspects of how things are run here but value the whole enough to want to take their part in paying for its continuance.

I'm not sure adequate funding would come along that way, but from all that's been said I think the signs are good. Why opt instead for a more restricted service whose additional administration needs would probably tie one of us at least into doing something he'd really rather not for easily an hour or two a week? Let's as far as possible restrict humdrum compulsory activities to those we get paid for

Paul

[Robert Darwent]

Originally Posted by Radio_Dave

Please refer back to Paul's post #6. Basically, this forum is interfering with Paul's livelihood and it could be closed down, in a matter of weeks.

I believe the issue of funding this forum has been more than addressed judging by the response of the members posting in this thread. All that is required now are the best ideas implementing for the forum's future to be assured.

Originally Posted by Radio_Dave

Why are we arguing about some inaccessible "junk" posts

OK the need for a 'skip' is obvious, for the genuine spam/illegible/abusive posts. But I believe we have already established that not all of the 46000 posts deleted fall into this category.

Originally Posted by Radio_Dave

the whole forum could be lost forever

I feel you fail to recognise that the forum is already being lost, in 46000 post chunks. I don't now what useful content has been ditched and neither does anyone else it appears, that is the point myself and others in this thread are trying to make and are concerned about.

Was it necessary to 'cull' anything from the forum when we are all so willing to provide funds so the forum can continue complete and intact?

Regards

[Refugee]

I have been thinking about how the bandwidth issue can be sorted out without losing it all or scanning it needlessly.
There must be a file comparison utility that can be used in conjunction with the model lists on many museum sites. This could be used to create a live google searchable listing of model numbers found in the archive. The archive itself could be on a satellite server with a random text lock just like the one we filled in when we joined on it so that positive action needs to be taken by the user before it uses any bandwidth at all what so ever. This could answer both the archive retention issue and the bandwidth issue in one go.

The other thing that has bothered some users has been raised in three messages in this thread.
First time by me in message 113 on page 6, By Repairman 1234 message 156 page 8 and Robert Darwent message 157 page 8.
We are all of the generation whom had to learn electronics by experience without formal teaching as none were there at the time. This involved spending time with our heads in the backs of sets while the older folk at the time were telling us we should get our spelling spot on first. If we did that we would never have got round to learning about radios that were being dumped in huge numbers at the time. If we were on a website that related to a language school the spell check reminders would be truly fitting however here a fitting compromise could be found that takes into account the time we have all had to spend with our heads in the backs of sets in order to get here.

[Audio1950]

I, too would be more than happy to pay a tenner a year to have access to a forum which has not only given me a lot of valuable advice, but has enabled me to meet a lot of interesting and generous people.

Barry

Could Paul post an email address for contributions, then he would know how many people are prepared to contribute (a sperate thread would be good considering how long this one is) and then divi it up and ask (in the thread) for the amount required from the responders?

[repairman 1234]

Originally Posted by Radio_Dave

I'm just trying to put an end to this pointless arguing about this forums rules and policies with a simple "take it or leave it option". I don't know if anybody has noticed, but the moderators are obviously tired of our moaning and have left the conversation. I do wonder if we've been given a piece of sting to hang ourselves?

Please refer back to Paul's post #6. Basically, this forum is interfering with Paul's livelihood and it could be closed down, in a matter of weeks. Why are we arguing about some inaccessible "junk" posts and other trivial matters when the whole forum could be lost forever?

Regards
David

We are not moaning, we are discussing and how do you know that what has been deleted was "Junk" You may be happy to pay for an unqualified schoolmaster to correct your incorrect spelling of STRING above, but I was happy to leave the schoolroom behind many years ago.

[soundhog]

Originally Posted by Top Cap

I have been recommended the following:-
www.servage.net for £4.50 per month you get unlimited disc space and unlimited transfer bandwidth. Full php support suitable for this Forum plus sql databases which should satisfy the needs of the Forum.

I'm staying out of the general debate, but I personally had a site with masses of data hosted by Servage for many years, with no problems that I can remember.

[Radio_Dave]

Originally Posted by repairman 1234

We are not moaning, we are discussing and how do you know that what has been deleted was "Junk"

Paul Sherwin has described these posts as having no meaningful content, are completely OT, are illegible, are abusive etc. I believe what he says, why do people disbelieve him?

Originally Posted by repairman 1234

You may be happy to pay for an unqualified schoolmaster to correct your incorrect spelling of STRING above, but I was happy to leave the schoolroom behind many years ago.

Yep I'm more than happy for my, unintentional, misspelling of "string" to be corrected. It's makes reading easier for everybody.

Regards
David

[repairman 1234]

Originally Posted by Radio_Dave

Paul Sherwin has described these posts as having no meaningful content, are completely OT, are illegible, are abusive etc. I believe what he says, why do people disbelieve him?

So am I to imagine that 2000+ posts made by Paul Stenning were completely OT, illegible, abusive etc??
I would prefer to have been given notice of the deletions so that I could have copied any that I wanted to keep.

Originally Posted by repairman 1234

You may be happy to pay for an unqualified schoolmaster to correct your incorrect spelling of STRING above, but I was happy to leave the schoolroom behind many years ago.

Yep I'm more than happy for my, unintentional, misspelling of "string" to be corrected. It's makes reading easier for everybody.

Regards
David[/QUOTE]
Jolly good then it's STRING