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Components and Circuits For discussions about component types, alternatives and availability, circuit configurations and modifications etc. Discussions here should be of a general nature and not about specific sets. |
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14th Oct 2018, 5:51 am | #1 |
Heptode
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Mystery PA with Sanken transistors
Which manufacturers tended to use Sanken transistors? I'm checking over a Japanese PA amp with Sanken 2SD257 output transistors, but it has no brand name. The model number is LBH-1021/01, it's 15 watt, and the front panel is black with a sort of Sansui/Realistic/Kenwood look to it.
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14th Oct 2018, 7:11 am | #2 |
Dekatron
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Re: Mystery PA with Sanken transistors
I've had Pioneer and Marantz amps with Sanken Q's in, but that doesn't sound like yours. How about a pic?
Andy.
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14th Oct 2018, 10:11 am | #3 |
Heptode
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Re: Mystery PA with Sanken transistors
Here it is. Only the knob on the right is original, and a DIN mike socket has been added to the back. "LBH" makes me think of Leader, which had model numbers with similar prefixes, but I've only ever seen test gear from them.
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The Waves That Rule Britannia Last edited by suebutcher; 14th Oct 2018 at 10:17 am. |
14th Oct 2018, 12:22 pm | #4 |
Nonode
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Re: Mystery PA with Sanken transistors
That looks similar to an old Tandy/Radioshack PA I used to have many moons ago.
So wondering if it may be one of those generic ones that got branded for any of a multitude of companies. |
14th Oct 2018, 1:24 pm | #5 |
Retired Dormant Member
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Re: Mystery PA with Sanken transistors
Eagle is another possibility.
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14th Oct 2018, 1:40 pm | #6 |
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Re: Mystery PA with Sanken transistors
It certainly has a 1990 cheap generic look to it. It's only 15W output so is certainly not a professional PA amp. Actually, it's hard to imagine what you would use such a limited amp for.
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14th Oct 2018, 2:44 pm | #7 |
Dekatron
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Re: Mystery PA with Sanken transistors
15W into 3 or 4 horn loaded PA speakers is plenty for a local show or fete.
It does look to have a 70V line output.
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14th Oct 2018, 3:22 pm | #8 |
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Re: Mystery PA with Sanken transistors
Ah, missed that. You're right in that case.
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14th Oct 2018, 3:53 pm | #9 |
Dekatron
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Re: Mystery PA with Sanken transistors
LBH1021/01 (without the -, but that could have slipped in as Japanese manufacturers almost always write model numbers that way) is a valid Philips model number from their Electro Acoustics department. They didn't always make their own amps, especially the cheaper models. It doesn't look like it was ever touched by Philips, no type plate, etc. but I think the model number is too much of a coincidence.
I'd say it's not 1990's but 1970's. Philips model numbers starting with LB are all professional audio products, the third letter and first number indicate the sub-category. Unfortunately the letters LBH1 didn't exist yet according to the 1967 model number decoding key that I have (it goes up to LBG1), but if I were to take a guess, I'd say the model was commissioned by a local Philips ELA department, for example that of the UK. Either that, or it was made by a Japanese manufacturer that was great at trolling (I'm not sure whether Philips could claim copyright on the number format Lxxnnnn). Could you maybe take a picture in which the specs on the back are a bit more zoomed in? I'd like to transcribe them in my Philips numbers database (with a tick in the box "more info wanted" so if anything turns up even a few years from now, I know to go back to this topic). Pictures of the inside, possibly from markings that could help determine the OEM and build date, would be nice as well. Last edited by Maarten; 14th Oct 2018 at 4:14 pm. |
14th Oct 2018, 4:28 pm | #10 |
Dekatron
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Re: Mystery PA with Sanken transistors
Date codes on components would help a lot.
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14th Oct 2018, 8:50 pm | #11 |
Octode
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Re: Mystery PA with Sanken transistors
It certainly looks like the sort of thing that Eagle would have sold in the 1970's but I don't recognise the model number.
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15th Oct 2018, 2:17 am | #12 |
Heptode
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Re: Mystery PA with Sanken transistors
It's from 1979, there's just one date on a cable. Here's the interior, and a close-up of the model ID. The mixer board has printed resistors, and the three-transistor power amp is transformer coupled, the driver transformer being tucked under the board. The original knobs do look a bit Philips-ish, though I haven't been able to match them to anything else pictured on the Internet.
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The Waves That Rule Britannia Last edited by suebutcher; 15th Oct 2018 at 2:26 am. |
15th Oct 2018, 2:52 am | #13 |
Dekatron
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Re: Mystery PA with Sanken transistors
Thank you! For future reference: the amplifier board is marked PK-30A. The mixer board has printed on resistors. I think either JVC, Sharp or Pioneer used that technology but it may have been common for certain Japanese equipment of that era. 1979 seems a bit late but not too far out of range, but to confirm are there any date/batch codes on the Sanken transistors? Normally, semiconductors are a good indicator with a margin of roughly a year.
Also, aren't there any markings on the transformers? I think I see something on the side of one. Such markings might be useful in finding out in which brands they're also used. Last edited by Maarten; 15th Oct 2018 at 2:58 am. |
15th Oct 2018, 6:28 am | #14 |
Dekatron
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Re: Mystery PA with Sanken transistors
The back panel looks like a TOA amplifier, they use the same blocks and the same anodised metal panel's and case construction. The designator looks TOA like too, but a search of their site reveals nowt, nor does a completed listing ebay search both in the UK and USA. A TOA amp would have "Made in Canada" not Japan.
Whatever it is, it looks well built using quality component's ( Rubycon caps), look at the size of the OPT, I bet it sounds well. Andy.
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Curiosity hasn't killed this cat...so far. Last edited by Diabolical Artificer; 15th Oct 2018 at 6:34 am. |
15th Oct 2018, 8:17 am | #15 |
Heptode
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Re: Mystery PA with Sanken transistors
The output transistors, Sanken 2SD257, have the code 9 N, the power transformer's marked UP 15H PT OE, the output transformer is marked UP 15 OPT OD with OE stamped on the top, and the mixer board says PRC HDK S6837 (and possibly more, there's components in the way.)
It can do 17 watts at 400Hz and above into 4 ohms before distortion, drops off to about 10 watts before distortion at 100Hz, and isn't usable below 50Hz, but that'd be fine for voice and background music. Apart from the power cord being cut, nothing was wrong with it. For all I know it may have been dumped because a couple of knobs were missing. Now to find someone who actually wants it!
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The Waves That Rule Britannia Last edited by suebutcher; 15th Oct 2018 at 8:42 am. |
15th Oct 2018, 10:53 am | #16 |
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Re: Mystery PA with Sanken transistors
The 240V voltage rating is unusual and implies it was made specifically for 240V countries such as the UK (and Australia?).
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15th Oct 2018, 11:13 am | #17 |
Octode
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Re: Mystery PA with Sanken transistors
Those dates just show at what point the cable type was approved by some certification body or other (is there a BS number nearby?), not the date of make. You could say that the unit can't be any older than this, but it may be considerably newer. It looks early to mid 80s to me.
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15th Oct 2018, 11:22 am | #18 |
Dekatron
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Re: Mystery PA with Sanken transistors
And isn't 12,000 miles away......
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15th Oct 2018, 12:31 pm | #19 |
Heptode
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Re: Mystery PA with Sanken transistors
No BS number, all the components including the wire are Japanese. Sumitomo put the year of manufacture on their cables for TEAC, for example.
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15th Oct 2018, 2:31 pm | #20 |
Dekatron
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Re: Mystery PA with Sanken transistors
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