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Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc.

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Old 24th Sep 2021, 11:20 pm   #1
DMcMahon
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Default Armour Research Foundation and Truvox Link

Looking inside my latest acquisition a Truvox R42 Reel to Reel, inside there is a label as per attached.

I have read a little about Armour Research Foundation and read that they did various research on early tape recorders, particularly wire recorders but I do not know the Truvox link ?
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 11:33 pm   #2
Ted Kendall
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Default Re: Armour Research Foundation and Truvox Link

They extracted royalties from Brenell, too, and others, for patents they claimed to hold over parts of the magnetic recording process - bewildering, really, since the Magnetophon as liberated by Mullin at the end of the war had all the essential features of the modern tape recorder. American outfit, of course...
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 2:11 am   #3
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Default Re: Armour Research Foundation and Truvox Link

Marvin Camras who was connected to Armour wrote (in my opinion) an excellent book, called Magnetic Recording Handbook which these days is available free online. Camras gives credit to early pioneers of magnetic recording, including Valdemar Poulsen who, in the 1800's well before the triode tube was invented, invented a magnetic recorder.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 8:05 am   #4
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Default Re: Armour Research Foundation and Truvox Link

I remember reading that one of the UK makers decided to stop paying and see what happened. Answer: nothing!
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 8:21 am   #5
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Default Re: Armour Research Foundation and Truvox Link

Quite so. According to the book, that was Brenell.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 12:30 pm   #6
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Default Re: Armour Research Foundation and Truvox Link

Indeed, that came straight from the horse's mouth - Brenell's new MD wondered why they were paying Armor... and stopped paying!
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Old 26th Sep 2021, 6:07 am   #7
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Default Re: Armour Research Foundation and Truvox Link

If they were for inventions for which they had no rightful patent then of course Armor had no right to extract payment, from Brenell or anyone else. What specifically were the alleged patents for?
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Old 26th Sep 2021, 7:10 am   #8
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Default Re: Armour Research Foundation and Truvox Link

In essence, Armour reckoned that as they had 'invented/pioneered' AC bias, and as Armor now licensed their technology rather than manufactured, that everyone using modern technology 'must be using' Armour's technology... so cough up!

I'm not sure what the specific, implied Truvox reference is, but Thermionic Products (who later merged with Truvox) had long licenced Brush's technology; they settled out of court with Armour, so we don't know what happened. Likewise, Wirek who had built Armour's wire recorders and now branched out on their own. That's the story...
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Old 26th Sep 2021, 8:55 am   #9
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Default Re: Armour Research Foundation and Truvox Link

I recall Thermionic at Southampton, they were making airport recorders there, tape running at a very slow speed. I went on a course there as UKAEA were installing them in the site control room at Winfrith. I was impressed by the method of inserting the time, where the voice was taken from a form of magnetic drum. Much easier these days!
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Old 26th Sep 2021, 2:05 pm   #10
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Default Re: Armour Research Foundation and Truvox Link

Quote:
Originally Posted by brenellic2000 View Post
In essence, Armour reckoned that as they had 'invented/pioneered' AC bias, and as Armor now licensed their technology rather than manufactured, that everyone using modern technology 'must be using' Armour's technology... so cough up!

I'm not sure what the specific, implied Truvox reference is, but Thermionic Products (who later merged with Truvox) had long licenced Brush's technology; they settled out of court with Armour, so we don't know what happened. Likewise, Wirek who had built Armour's wire recorders and now branched out on their own. That's the story...
Thanks Barry.
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Old 26th Sep 2021, 2:25 pm   #11
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Default Re: Armour Research Foundation and Truvox Link

Just looked inside my latest purchase a Truvox R.44, the 4 track version of my R.42, this also has a similar label, but without a biggish strip down cannot fully read the label as it is partly covered by the amplifier unit.

David
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Old 26th Sep 2021, 3:55 pm   #12
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Default Re: Armour Research Foundation and Truvox Link

Like it or not, the first people who actually made AC bias work were von Braunmuhl and Weber of RRG in 1941.
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Old 27th Sep 2021, 7:10 am   #13
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Default Re: Armour Research Foundation and Truvox Link

Quite so Ted, ... which brings us round to post-war reparations and annulment of German patents... a rabbit hole I didn't enter!
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Old 27th Sep 2021, 10:31 am   #14
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Default Re: Armour Research Foundation and Truvox Link

Wise man - I think German patents were restored as early as 1949, but I may be wrong on that.

It strikes me that if the ARF claims had any merit, they'd be collecting from every tape recorder manufacturer in Christendom, and they evidently weren't.
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Old 27th Sep 2021, 10:55 am   #15
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Default Re: Armour Research Foundation and Truvox Link

After partially lifting up the amplifier unit on the R.44 got a picture of the whole label, showing code 234 as against code 233 on the R.42

David
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Old 27th Sep 2021, 12:40 pm   #16
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Default Re: Armour Research Foundation and Truvox Link

I seem to remember posting a similar question a littel while ago. I don't think the deck was a Truvox and certainly not a Brenell - could have been an Elizabethan using a Collaro deck?
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Old 27th Sep 2021, 12:56 pm   #17
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Default Re: Armour Research Foundation and Truvox Link

Armor tried it on with everyone in the UK and by 1956 had caught EMI, Collaro and a host of others! I don't know what the precise legal position was, but it soon faded into the annuls of history.
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Old 27th Sep 2021, 2:45 pm   #18
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Default Re: Armour Research Foundation and Truvox Link

They also allegedly patented the crossfield bias technique later used by Akai and Tandberg.
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Old 27th Sep 2021, 5:17 pm   #19
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Default Re: Armour Research Foundation and Truvox Link

Sounds like an early case of patent trolling. If someone else had invented it earlier and kept it a trade secret, then the patent stands. They hinge on publication. So you mustn't publish your own invention until you've got the patent filed and pending or you shoot your own one down. And then you get to which countries patent offices you choose to file in (and pay for each!) in any country not filed in or not part of a joint patent office group, you have no protection. Some companies wave patents around, even though there is prior publication to shoot them down. If the patent examiner misses it and the patent is granted, it costs serious money to mount a challenge. Some firms rely on this being uncertain and also likely more expensive than stumping up.

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Old 28th Sep 2021, 7:34 am   #20
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Default Re: Armour Research Foundation and Truvox Link

You have to remember that a patent is designed only to give patent applicants around 15-25 yrs protection to develop and benefit from their original idea. There is nothing to stop someone from finding a weakness/loophole and applying for a better "Improvement to..." patent - as indeed most patents are! My father wrote his own patents as the 'experts' had written in too many avoidable loopholes!

Those with truly original and unfathomable ideas, such as Daphne Oram's music concrete (and many food recipies!) are often advised not to seek protection as it forces disclosure of trade secrets, and in Banksi's lost copyright case, his identity!

Its a funny old world!
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