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Old 28th Aug 2018, 1:16 pm   #581
SteveCG
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Re: post no. 578

It's a Belling and Lee double six (minus a folding dipole !)...
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Old 28th Aug 2018, 2:41 pm   #582
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Picture of the Eastbourne Channel 5 mast here.
http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/eastbourne-vhf.php
Crystal Palace was received on Channel 1
for the feed.
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Old 5th Sep 2018, 5:23 pm   #583
winston_1
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Just spent a few days visiting friends in Bicester, near Oxford. Quite a lot of VHF aerials still there as the attachments show. Looks like B2 Oxford horizontal, B12 Membury horizontal and high gain C9 Croydon. Puzzled why so many Croydon aerials when Membury available. Perhaps they predate Membury startup (when) or maybe people preferred London programmes. The last band 1/3 looks interesting. Looks as if just band 3 directors and band 1 dipole. Assume the bending is something to do with band 3 matching. Unless anyone knows any different.
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Old 6th Sep 2018, 7:53 pm   #584
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

BIII Membury re-radiated Midlands ATV (which had its 'home' transmitter at Lichfield): this was not really appreciated by viewers in the Thames Valley or Chilterns areas who saw themselves as much more interested in the goings-on in nearby London (which was much easier-to-get-to either by train or car than Birmingham).

As far West as Swindon and Marlborough and even if you had a good location, Devizes - people put up big vertically-polarised BIII arrays so they could get Croydon (even with a grainy picture) rather than "Midlands ATV" from Membury

[I've recently taken some pics of horizontal BIII Membury antennas in Marlborough. Queue here for postings rather soon].
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Old 7th Sep 2018, 11:05 am   #585
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Winston_1,

A fine collection you have snapped there!

Firstly, Croydon indeed predated Membury, although as G6Tanuki says, viewing preferences may account for the number of B9 Vert aerials you saw.

I think that the BI dipole in the first picture is a J-Beam (it has a distinctive junction box cap.) The Band III aerials in the second and third photos is a J-Beam slot design. Not sure about the Band I aerials in those 'photos.

The combined BI/BIII aerial in the fourth looks suspiciously like a Labgear. The nature of the bent band I dipole is not due to matching, rather it was intended for situations where the Band III and the Band I signals were from different directions. What you see there is I think is an incorrectly chosen aerial, put-together to fit the circumstances. Really, the Band I dipole elements in this design should form an 'S' shape to approximate being at right angles to the Band I signals, whilst the Band III elements were pointing straight at the Band III transmitter. I speculate that the rigger only had the 'bent' type in the back of the van and used them where a straight Band I dipole would have been more appropriate (a version which which Labgear also sold).

There are /were quite a few examples of this in the Cambridge area (home of Labgear) where the TV channels were B2 for the local BBC relay and B6 for ITA from the then newly opened Sandy Heath transmitter. So since Oxford and Cambridge used the same BI channel there was a certain logic to seeing those designs in the Oxford area as well (same production run, etc).

Last edited by SteveCG; 7th Sep 2018 at 11:11 am. Reason: Clarification
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Old 22nd Sep 2018, 5:19 pm   #586
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

You see a lot more when you walk! I have driven past this house many times on the Horsham to Cranleigh Road. It is tucked in the corner and easily missed. John.
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Old 22nd Sep 2018, 5:39 pm   #587
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

The only photos I have put into this thread have been of aerials I have spotted while walking.
When driving there are too many speed cameras and people wondering into the road with smart phones welded onto there noses to look out for. You just miss the old aerials.
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Old 22nd Sep 2018, 6:57 pm   #588
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Hi

It makes you think that the quality of those old VHF aerials, the brackets, chimney lashings etc must have been decent to survive the elements for 50+ years including the great storm of 1987 and others. They're also considerably larger than UHF aerials as well, putting extra leverage on the brackets so it's remarkable these aerials have survived.
I can't see modern aerials lasting so well. Take most satellite dish aerials for example, most have gone rotten after about 8 years. My basic 18 element Yagi UHF TV aerial has done quite well however, it's been in use for 21 years and appears to be OK regards corrosion.

Regards
Symon.
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Old 22nd Sep 2018, 7:10 pm   #589
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

They didn't last long in Bolton/Wigan in South Lancashire in the 50's and 60's, boom to aerial bracket 3 or 4 years, lashing and chimney bracket 5-6 years.
Smoke from the factories and coal fires rotted them, only up a few months and the aluminium was black and started to corrode.
Then the factories closed or started to use electric power, homes went smokeless fuel and things took on a much better appearance. Now aerials last years without problems.
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Old 23rd Sep 2018, 1:07 am   #590
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

You are right about the rust.
I have some photos of the black soot and rust from 2016 on a much more substantial insulator bracket from an old pumping station that is being converted to another use.
The owner let me take it home
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Old 23rd Sep 2018, 6:18 am   #591
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winston_1 View Post
Just spent a few days visiting friends in Bicester, near Oxford. Quite a lot of VHF aerials still there as the attachments show. Looks like B2 Oxford horizontal, B12 Membury horizontal and high gain C9 Croydon. Puzzled why so many Croydon aerials when Membury available. Perhaps they predate Membury startup (when) or maybe people preferred London programmes. The last band 1/3 looks interesting. Looks as if just band 3 directors and band 1 dipole. Assume the bending is something to do with band 3 matching. Unless anyone knows any different.
Brilliant photos. I can only guess the Oxford and Croydon installation pre dated Membury. I'll have to look for the opening dates for both.

The opening post of the Coldstream aerials gave a possible indication where the aerials were first erected. Earlier ones were for Pontop Pike and Burnhope. A later installation was for Pontop Pike and Selkirk, the latter pre dating the opening of the BBC equivalent to Selkirk.

Cheers
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Old 23rd Sep 2018, 9:59 am   #592
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

I thought I would take some pictures of our local installations. When we moved here there were 'H' aerials on practically every other chimney - can't find any now.

Peter
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Old 27th Sep 2018, 10:19 pm   #593
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Focus Diode View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston_1 View Post
Just spent a few days visiting friends in Bicester, near Oxford. Quite a lot of VHF aerials still there as the attachments show. Looks like B2 Oxford horizontal, B12 Membury horizontal and high gain C9 Croydon. Puzzled why so many Croydon aerials when Membury available. Perhaps they predate Membury startup (when) or maybe people preferred London programmes. The last band 1/3 looks interesting. Looks as if just band 3 directors and band 1 dipole. Assume the bending is something to do with band 3 matching. Unless anyone knows any different.
Brilliant photos. I can only guess the Oxford and Croydon installation pre dated Membury. I'll have to look for the opening dates for both.
Yes, I can confirm Oxford ch, 2H opened on 29/01/62. Source "BBC Handbook 1966".

Membury ch12H opened on 30/04/65.

This would appear to suggest the installation with the Oxford and Croydon aerials date between 1962-1965.

Brian
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Old 28th Sep 2018, 4:57 pm   #594
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

excuse quality but taken from street view, an array found in Oxford (still there) - would have captured ITV London, ITV Membury (ATV) both B3, BBC (Oxford) B1 and B5. Unusually doesn't have London B1 (unless it dropped off). Just about the only external Oxford B1 antenna I've ever seen in and around Oxford in over 30 years. My guess is the Oxford B1 was originally positioned for London but reconfigured when the Membury B3 was installed maybe since the dates tally ..
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Old 13th Oct 2018, 5:16 pm   #595
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Great picture Mikey.

I think this cover of the march 1952 edition of the Murphy Service News needs to description other than it must be Holme Moss that is mentioned. J.
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Old 14th Oct 2018, 5:23 pm   #596
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Here is an early one from Ely in Cambridgeshire. Must go right back to the start of ITV i suppose.
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Old 14th Oct 2018, 7:35 pm   #597
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Jeanfield Road Perth recently. Perth still has loads of 405 line aerials.
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Old 16th Oct 2018, 1:14 pm   #598
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Re post no. 597: akuram1 - Aaah, a fine sight that!
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Old 16th Oct 2018, 1:21 pm   #599
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Re post no. 596: michamoo - the 'X' is indeed an early design of folded - dipole aerial. It was known as a Dublex, but it was a Band I design and so was for the BBC transmissions. However the box-like structure below it is more puzzling. It is not clear from the photo whether it is a Band III cubical quad design - or whether it is the dipole and reflector of a Group A, UHF, J. Beam Parabeam design.
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Old 16th Oct 2018, 11:03 pm   #600
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials 2013 to the present day.

Only a quarter of a mile from my shop in Winlaton a combined band 1 and 3 aerial on the gable end of a block of maisonettes.

Horizontal polarized aerials to receive the BBC1 Pontop Pike transmitter on channel B5 and the ITV Burnhope transmitter on channel B8.
Below the 405 aerial is an old UHF aerial for Pontop Pike. Above another UHF array to receive the Fenham Newcastle relay transmitter.

DFWB.
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