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Old 5th Apr 2019, 5:44 pm   #1
Chumley
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Default Broken Ferguson 393G

Having got the bug with my rubbish dump Hacker Gondolier and bargain Bush SRP31D repairs recently I've just pushed the boat out and picked up a Ferguson 393G to have a look at (mainly because my wife is feeling nostalgic as it was the first record player she had).

All the parts appears to be with it, although unfortunately not in the right places. It's been badly shaken around in transit; the deck came adrift, knocked out the roll top, pulled a few wires off, knocked the valves loose into the base, and split a couple of bits of wood. That lot I can probably cope with.

The main problem is that it's also cracked the PCB in several places, as shown in the pictures. I must admit it's fascinating to see a non-miniaturised PCB; everything seems so solid and obvious compared with looking at the inside of a modern computer.

Anyway, before I try to get the deck working, check the components and so on, I really have no idea whether the PCB can be fixed. I was wondering about gluing it and soldering what appear to be obvious connections on the printed circuit, but that's something I've never attempted before. All the components on the other side look intact.

Is this PCB repairable by an average solderer? Should I find a specialist to do the work? Or is it too far gone? I'd better address this fundamental before I start looking at circuit diagrams and tolerances...

If I can resolve this there will doubtless be plenty of other questions during the restoration. If not, this will be the only one!

Laurie
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Old 5th Apr 2019, 5:56 pm   #2
Lloyd 1985
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Default Re: Broken Ferguson 393g

Yes that looks fixable! Superglue will stick PCB material no problem, then just bridge the damaged tracks with a bit of copper wire soldered across the breaks. Just beware that superglue makes some nasty fumes when it meets a soldering iron, so work with plenty of ventilation when re-soldering the cracks.

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Old 5th Apr 2019, 6:01 pm   #3
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Default Re: Broken Ferguson 393g

yes the pcb should be repairable scrape the varnish off the track ends and bridge with a thickish copper wire and araldite where there's no print
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Old 5th Apr 2019, 6:03 pm   #4
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Default Re: Broken Ferguson 393g

That's encouraging - thanks Lloyd and BRASSBITS. First stop on my restoration journey is therefore Tesco to pick up some superglue!
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Old 5th Apr 2019, 6:08 pm   #5
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Default Re: Broken Ferguson 393g

Hi Laurie
Looks like the rp had a very rough journey, but not to worry, if you can repair the cabinet etc the pcb (printed circuit board) can also be repaired, I must admit all the boards I have repaired over the years were not quite so bad. Providing you have a small soldering iron you can bridge the broken tracks, how you achieve this is up to you, but also look very carefully for hair line cracks. A decent magnifying glass and good lighting is required.
Hope this is of some help to you.
You have a decent amplifier in this rp so it would be a pity not to restore it, all the best.
Cheers
John
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Old 5th Apr 2019, 9:29 pm   #6
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Default Re: Broken Ferguson 393G

As others have already said - yes repairable. I prefer to use a fairly long (say an inch) piece of tinned copper wire for each break, bent to follow the track but soldered at the ends of the wire rather than right by the break.
On these old boards it is very easy to lift the track when soldering directly at the break.
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Old 6th Apr 2019, 10:54 am   #7
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Default Re: Broken Ferguson 393G

Thanks for the encouraging words about the PCB. I feel confident to have a crack at that now, but am just looking ahead to when I might consider turning it on (after basic safety checks). As the machine is in no state to be switched on or to have any reading checked at the moment I'm looking at basic amplifier fixes while I'm working on the PCB.

Are there any components in this machine that are really 'change on sight' items? I'm thinking in particular of the caps, which you can see in the pictures. C3 and C4 look especially icky, as does the cap that's attached to the deck itself (haven't been able to work out which one that is on the circuit diagram yet). They all appear to be Hunts. Initial safety is really my priority I suppose, as once it's working I hope I can deal with anything that is causing any odd noises.

Separately, everything on the deck seems thoroughly gummed up and I look forward to discovering the intricacies of the Collaro using Michael Maurice's picture guide.

There's one thing I've noticed though that looks like it might be a broken component. It's a small piece of cream plastic flapping about on the underside, as pictured. I'm struggling to tell what it is or what it should look like from the exploded diagrams and photos I've found. I'm trying to find out what it is, what it should look like, and if I can fabricate some kind of repair assuming it is indeed trashed.
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Old 6th Apr 2019, 11:47 am   #8
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Default Re: Broken Ferguson 393G

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chumley View Post
Are there any components in this machine that are really 'change on sight' items? I'm thinking in particular of the caps, which you can see in the pictures. C3 and C4 look especially icky, as does the cap that's attached to the deck itself (haven't been able to work out which one that is on the circuit diagram yet). They all appear to be Hunts. Initial safety is really my priority I suppose, as once it's working I hope I can deal with anything that is causing any odd noises.
C7, C8, C9 are the ones circuit-wise that could cause valve damage by leaking. C14 is one that could go bang. Can't help with the one on the deck (possibly across switch contacts?) and will let others advise about the pickup and deck isolating caps - probably should be Y types.
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Old 6th Apr 2019, 12:47 pm   #9
Edward Huggins
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Default Re: Broken Ferguson 393G

The one to the deck is probabaly an isolating cap as this (great sounding) player uses a 2 x UCL83 live chassis. By the way the 6.5" speaker should be a twin-coned unit.
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Old 6th Apr 2019, 9:23 pm   #10
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Default Re: Broken Ferguson 393G

The piece of cream plastic is I think, the link to what would have been the on off switch for the deck.
Removed on those as the motor runs all the time as it is in series with the valve heaters which need to be heated up and ready.
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Old 6th Apr 2019, 10:17 pm   #11
Chumley
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Default Re: Broken Ferguson 393G

Thanks for the notes on the caps. The speaker looks in good nick to me - looking forward to firing it up Edward. I haven't yet been able to track down where the deck isolating cap is shown on the circuit diagrams, and it's melted so much I can't read what the rating should be.

Interesting idea on the piece of plastic. The dirt on it suggests it's been like that for many, many years. I've read about the motor running in series with the heaters; there is a metal motor switch next to the speed control though. Am I correct in thinking the motor operates when the power is switched on and that the metal switch merely engages it? Therefore that bit of plastic is completely redundant?
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Old 7th Apr 2019, 12:40 am   #12
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Default Re: Broken Ferguson 393G

The capacitor mounted on the deck is C1: https://www.service-data.com/product...01/2524/m11901
It's a .02uF 300v AC waxy, which should be replaced with a 22nF.
C1-4 are all 300v AC, and all should be replaced with class Y ideally.

There's a note in the service data to the effect that the changer is a special version of the Collaro Challenger, which may account for the disconnected switch as well as the series connection.
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Old 7th Apr 2019, 4:13 pm   #13
Chumley
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Default Re: Broken Ferguson 393G

Thanks Bill - I'd noticed the reference to the 'special model' for the 393G only, so that explains what's special about it! C1 is obvious now you've pointed it out to me.
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Old 8th Apr 2019, 7:21 am   #14
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Default Re: Broken Ferguson 393G

I have one of these so have a few pictures of when it was in bits and could open it up and do a few more if need be great sounding sets
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Old 8th Apr 2019, 7:58 am   #15
Chumley
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Default Re: Broken Ferguson 393G

Mine's currently in bits; which reminds me I must take some photos myself before going any further. All I've had time to do is wash the roller sections and to gently sponge most of the dirt off the speaker cloth. Next I'll try to clean up the vinyl and repair the splits in the wood so I can fit in the roller top before final gluing the carcass to stop it falling out!

Plan is then to do a clean/stripdown/service of the deck, by which time I should be prepared to tackle the caps and PCB repairs. All in the faith that it will eventually work. If I need any reference pics of how the inside should be I'll give you a shout thanks FIXITNOW.
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Old 15th Apr 2019, 10:54 am   #16
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Default Re: Broken Ferguson 393G

As shown, the cat helped me strip down the machine, which was very helpful. The case and roller cover have been cleaned since these were taken.

I decided not to take any chances on replacing the caps, so I've contacted a local repair specialist. He's quoted very reasonably on sorting them out and repairing the board for me, and he's confirmed the auto mechanism is gummed up as expected. The Studio O cartridge is apparently working fine, and I've got the right styli lined up and ready to go when it's all fixed.

More to follow!
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Old 15th Apr 2019, 1:10 pm   #17
Edward Huggins
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Default Re: Broken Ferguson 393G

Your Cat looks like he might know what he's doing?
These record players can give a really full Bass, especially on heavily modulated records. The tip here is to raise up the roller shutter about an inch or so to reduce the standing waves inside. A great way of "tuning" these superb units!
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Old 15th Apr 2019, 4:52 pm   #18
Chumley
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Default Re: Broken Ferguson 393G

The cat knows what he's doing more than me! I'll have to have a 'bass off' of this against my Gondolier when it's finished. Toyed briefly with changing the cartridge, but I intend to keep this as a mono player.
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 9:09 am   #19
Edward Huggins
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Default Re: Broken Ferguson 393G

You'll find the Collaro Studio "O" cartidge hard to beat. They are still one of the very best crystal cartridges. You can easily fit a stereo stylus to this, but even so the vertical compliance will still be poor.
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Old 27th Apr 2019, 8:40 am   #20
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Default Re: Broken Ferguson 393G

Here's an update on progress.

Photos show the PCB repairs and cap replacements, courtesy of a local repairer in Norwich. Unfortunately in turned out there was a break on the tone arm, but he was able to fit a spare. The speaker appears to be scraping a little when the unit is turned up, but I'm reluctant to replace it; this RP will be mainly used for novelty value than true hi-fi. At last I get what Edward says about the treble capability!

Will post a video of it in action shortly.
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