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Old 25th Nov 2021, 9:35 am   #1
Nymrod121
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Default Just when you thought Networking-over-Mains was bad for RFI

https://events.theiet.org/events/a-n...tm_term=602162

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Old 25th Nov 2021, 11:25 am   #2
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Default Re: Just when you thought Networking-over-Mains was bad for RFI

Touch safe electricity? Had to check the date - nope, not April 1st.
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Old 25th Nov 2021, 1:06 pm   #3
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Default Re: Just when you thought Networking-over-Mains was bad for RFI

"...electrical energy is transmitted in discreet data enabled packets..." so the packets are unobtrusive (plain brown envelopes maybe?)

Actually, I thought electrical energy always had been in discrete (sic) amounts. They're called electrons.
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Old 25th Nov 2021, 1:38 pm   #4
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Default Re: Just when you thought Networking-over-Mains was bad for RFI

Having a quick read I saw a mention of data packets, automatic software updates & on another site, electricity via WiFi ... and the average UK person these days loves the word 'digital'.

So in theory the system could be hacked, and parts of your home could be rendered obsolete in a heartbeat? Still, at least you'll be able to switch on a blender or sewing machine whilst either on the bus or, when you're bored many thousands of miles from home, in another country. Useful.

Living in the countryside we already have an early form of digital electricity, either full mains or nowt! (especially in stormy weather).

I can just imagine all those electricity 'transmitters' & then a 'receiver' in the home screaming away, not audible to humans or animals ooooo no, but I bet our wireless sets would tune in a treat ...

That said, I can hear our WiFi router screaming away, it's very irritating. Not faulty either, as when visiting other homes, I can hear theirs too ... sounds like an old telly when the aerial lead has fallen out the socket and the poor old set needs nail varnish on the linearity coils.

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Old 25th Nov 2021, 2:04 pm   #5
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Default Re: Just when you thought Networking-over-Mains was bad for RFI

Here's some specs. for one of the transmitters:

https://service.somfy.com/downloads/...spec_sheet.pdf

Lawrence.
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Old 25th Nov 2021, 2:43 pm   #6
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Default Re: Just when you thought Networking-over-Mains was bad for RFI

So...with cynicism- is this merely a concept intended to generate a market for the equipment required to make it work? I know people will buy anything if it's trendy, but this seems about as long term marketable as selling farts in jam jars to me. Am i missing something?

Well spotted- the distinction between discreet and discrete. They just lost what little credibility they may have had. It's Luminaires and Luminaries all over again..

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Old 25th Nov 2021, 4:19 pm   #7
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Default Re: Just when you thought Networking-over-Mains was bad for RFI

Can they send it encrypted, so that no-one can tell you're using any power?

Rather than see the forum swirl down the plug-hole of some of the common interminable arguments, let's just sit back and watch this one play out.

The truly mischievous could always bring it to the attention of those campaigners against 5G and all that jazz.

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Old 25th Nov 2021, 6:39 pm   #8
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Default Re: Just when you thought Networking-over-Mains was bad for RFI

I'm really disappointed that the IET are providing apparent credibility for this. In particular, attending this seminar counts toward one's professional development!
What is the IET coming to ? I might as well cancel my subscription...

I'd hope the presenter who is pitching this stuff gets a really hard time from the IET members in the power supply side of the industry !
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Old 25th Nov 2021, 6:44 pm   #9
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Default Re: Just when you thought Networking-over-Mains was bad for RFI

It would be nice if someone could explain precisely what (we think) they're doing with this system- bigclive may get onto it eventually but it would be good if the knowledgeable here could beat him to it..?

(I do not want to risk attending a free webinar; it sounds like it might generate unwanted communication bumph in it's wake)

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Old 25th Nov 2021, 7:14 pm   #10
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Default Re: Just when you thought Networking-over-Mains was bad for RFI

I suppose we always have reality as a backstop. Someone may be proposing a pipedream system.... It's digital so it's bound to work... but making it work will stop the idiots, eventually. I still think we should set the 5G conspiracy theorists on them.

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Old 25th Nov 2021, 7:29 pm   #11
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Default Re: Just when you thought Networking-over-Mains was bad for RFI

Maybe Mike Harrison (mikeselectricstuff) will get on to it as he is a fir bit more knowledgeable than Clive and it very good at reverse engineering things, certainly sounds a lot like rooster eggs to me.
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Old 25th Nov 2021, 8:20 pm   #12
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Default Re: Just when you thought Networking-over-Mains was bad for RFI

Didn't Nikolai Tesla come up with some scheme like this?

You know. The guy who fell in love with a pigeon.

I second RW's idea and bring it to the attention of the 5G luditetes. When they meet it may be a case they cause a maximum improbability implosion and vanish in a puff of irrefutable logic.
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Old 25th Nov 2021, 10:01 pm   #13
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Default Re: Just when you thought Networking-over-Mains was bad for RFI

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Castle View Post
(snipped)

I second RW's idea and bring it to the attention of the 5G luditetes. When they meet it may be a case they cause a maximum improbability implosion and vanish in a puff of irrefutable logic.
Especially if they glue themselves to the transmission lines in protest ...
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Old 25th Nov 2021, 10:10 pm   #14
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Default Re: Just when you thought Networking-over-Mains was bad for RFI

Tesla was certainly a fan of electricity via radio waves (hoping to scale it up to make it useful in the real world) but he did dip his toes in some very wild concepts from time to time.
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Old 25th Nov 2021, 10:21 pm   #15
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Default Re: Just when you thought Networking-over-Mains was bad for RFI

Here is a YT video of the system installed at a cannabis factory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ_pwECxiVI

It seems to be marketed to the unwary because 'it's new, it's different, so it must be good...right?'

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Old 25th Nov 2021, 10:27 pm   #16
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Default Re: Just when you thought Networking-over-Mains was bad for RFI

but he did dip his toes in some very wild concepts from time to time.
Dave

That he did, but at least half of his "wild ideas" are in common use everyday and nobody even remembers who invented them. The half that dont work are most likely because we still havent caught up to his brain standard.


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Old 25th Nov 2021, 10:28 pm   #17
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Default Re: Just when you thought Networking-over-Mains was bad for RFI

A cannibis factory

Dave!!! slap, leave that stuff alone


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Old 25th Nov 2021, 10:30 pm   #18
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Default Re: Just when you thought Networking-over-Mains was bad for RFI

The 'digital' bit seems nothing more than load on/off switching via relays.

Looks like a quantum leap in marketing phraseology.

For 'wireless transmitters', there seems to be an awful lot of cabling

Unusual choice of industry as a poster-child. Most firms would keep well clear.

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Old 26th Nov 2021, 12:11 am   #19
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Default Re: Just when you thought Networking-over-Mains was bad for RFI

I'm an observer here because the theory is a lot beyond me but its certainly vintage-nothing is that new if you care to look. Is there an exploitative element I don't know! We already have "wireless" TV's on the market [SKY]. Wireless power was investigated by Tesla. Now it's just a car!

This might not be the right approach in the end but lots of things often turn out to be useful. Edison fried an Elephant to prove that DC was better than AC. Ironically it took a very long time for DC power transmission to become an Industry standard. As Joe said, in the meantime, Tesla is still behind modern society even now-especially now! Why did he die in poverty? What happened to his paperwork? Aside from the love affair with a pigeon, he also invented three phase transmission while reciting the poet Goethe. See the Power Station at Niagra Falls [USA side]. I didn't because I didn't know it was there when on a visit to Canada. I saw the Horizon Documentary though!

Nobody can establish who invented television of course because it was going on all round the world at the same time Two of the most influential figures in history, however, were treated very badly. Why would that be?

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Old 26th Nov 2021, 12:50 am   #20
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Default Re: Just when you thought Networking-over-Mains was bad for RFI

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave walsh View Post
…he [Tesla] also invented three phase transmission
Folklore. The basic polyphase and induction motor precepts had previously been set out by Ferraris. Telsa’s own polyphase work (some with Westinghouse) was with two-phase, not three-phase. The original Niagara Falls station generated at two-phase, transmitted at three-phase, using Scott transformers. I think that GE (or one of its predecessors) did the transmission system. For a good early three-phase history, see “Early Three-Phase Power – Winner in the Development of Polyphase AC” by Gerhard Neidhöfer in IEE “Power & Energy Magazine 2007 September-October, p.88ff.


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