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Vintage Computers Any vintage computer systems, calculators, video games etc., but with an emphasis on 1980s and earlier equipment.

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Old 1st Nov 2021, 8:42 pm   #121
Timbucus
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Default Re: MK14 Programming Interface

Clever - a little like how I use my PI0 board to have a wifi interface but, with simpler hardware. I love the idea of a webpage - you could then use a mobile phone to present a GUI to load the programs - a bit like the Toshiba FlashAir SD that allowed a WebDAV interface to drag and drop files...
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Old 2nd Nov 2021, 6:43 pm   #122
DeltaAlpha52
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Default Re: MK14 Programming Interface

Interesting about using the PIO to get a wifi interface.

Not sure my web skills are up to drag and drop but here is an image of the current screen.
You can upload any .hex file and it is stored on the ESP8266 with a comment.
You can then select the file required and it will display the contents on the web page.
Selecting Load and it will be loaded onto the MK14 - assuming one is attached to the interface.

It needs a bit ( well a lot ) of work and I must try and get some documentation sorted

David

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Originally Posted by Timbucus View Post
Clever - a little like how I use my PI0 board to have a wifi interface but, with simpler hardware. I love the idea of a webpage - you could then use a mobile phone to present a GUI to load the programs - a bit like the Toshiba FlashAir SD that allowed a WebDAV interface to drag and drop files...
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Old 10th Nov 2021, 6:09 pm   #123
DeltaAlpha52
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Default Re: MK14 Programming Interface

Well I managed to get my ESP8266 programming interface working so I tried doing a video of it working.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq6K6SKH3e0

It's my first youtube video so not brilliant quality, and my voice sounds a bit hoarse which is caused by the reflux and Hiatus Hernia.

Hopefully the video makes some sense and I will now work of the documentations for the project - always my "Achilles heel" when it comes to projects. There a few that I've got working and then not quite got around to documenting before moving on.

Not sure what name to use for the project, MK14web maybe

And like all projects with a PCB involved I realised I'd missed something off the board. Luckily not a major issue but I realised I needed an indicator LED or 2 to say if the webserver was connected to WIFI or was generating a WAP for you to connect to. The first is when using in a known environment and the second when using it away from base.

I also had room to add in the serial sram chip as used by SiriusHardware but thought about it too late

I'm sure there is a number of improvements to be made to the firmware but at least it works !

stay safe
David
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Old 10th Nov 2021, 6:53 pm   #124
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: MK14 Programming Interface

Brilliant, that didn't take you very long!

I don't know anything at all about the little micro board you've used, do you have the PC and the unit connected together via a direct ad-hoc connection, or are they both on the same local network, or is the 'control panel' actually a web page that you go to on the internet?

Edit: I've just run through your post again, so...

At home you connect it to your normal wifi network and it's a local 'web page' which you can navigate to much like the control panel on your router, this means you can keep your usual wifi settings and navigate around the rest of your network and onto the internet...

But- when you are away off site you can make it look like an access point to which you can connect instead?

Last edited by SiriusHardware; 10th Nov 2021 at 7:05 pm.
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Old 10th Nov 2021, 8:44 pm   #125
DeltaAlpha52
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Default Re: MK14 Programming Interface

Yep - what you say is correct, there is no direct connection - it just needs to be powered - normally via a 5v mirco usb connection.

cheer
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Old 10th Nov 2021, 8:57 pm   #126
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: MK14 Programming Interface

I could see some fun with an online version of this coupled with a webcam so that people could write code and then watch it run on actual hardware. You could also use the hardware interface to let them press buttons on the keypad, if their software requires keypad input.

A while ago in the VDU thread we were trying to solve some problem and lamenting the fact that Karen didn't have the necessary hardware in front of her. Someone, Buzby123 I think, suggested making an MK14 available to her by online means. At the time I thought it was pretty much unworkable especially given that we were against the clock, but this is very close to what would have been required.

Second thoughts - if you did put one online it would only be a matter of hours before someone had it displaying 'boobS' (or worse).
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Old 10th Nov 2021, 10:15 pm   #127
DeltaAlpha52
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Default Re: MK14 Programming Interface

The module I used was the ESP8266 LOLIN v3 which on the Arduino IDE board seems to be the "NodeMCU 1.0 (ESP-12E Module)"

It's main problem is the number of GPIO pins you can use, or not use . Things like GPIO0 is used to boot into flash mode means I was down to 7 useable pins - just enough to get the charlieplexing to work. I have since managed to use the GPIO0 pin to show either a red led ( WAP mode ) or green led ( wifi connected ) without preventing the switch to flash mode.

Of course during the time when I was thinking and developing this, bought the ESP modules in Jul, Espressif Systems have come out with the ESP32 - which is faster, has more pins and I think can handle HTTPS - something the ESP8266 would struggle to do - and they have updated the Arduino IDE to handle them.

I was thinking about version 2 of the board to fix a couple of issue, but I think version 2, if produced, would use the ESP32 - charlieplexing would be the same just the pinout of the module.

I like the idea of a internet connected MK14 with a camera but I think HTTPS would be a good idea, and the ESP32 does seem to support a camera option
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Old 10th Nov 2021, 11:11 pm   #128
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: MK14 Programming Interface

I was going to say that up to a point, this is quite similar in concept to Doug Rice's online MK14 emulator (where the MK14 is software emulated and represented graphically) but I can't find any working links to it at the moment.
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Old 10th Nov 2021, 11:30 pm   #129
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: MK14 Programming Interface

Ah, it's back:

http://www.dougrice.plus.com/mk14/seg_mk14.htm
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Old 11th Nov 2021, 9:52 am   #130
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: MK14 Programming Interface

...And it's broken again. Not sure what's going on there. There was a brief period last night when the link did work.
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Old 14th Nov 2021, 11:49 pm   #131
DeltaAlpha52
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Default Re: MK14 Programming Interface

Well got some of the documentation together on the web based MK14 keys setup and uploaded it and the kicad and arduino files to my github folder https://github.com/dallday/MK14ESP8266keys

Any comments welcome - and if anyone wants a copy of the PCB please let me know

Having thought about it it would be quite nice to have a webpage that sent the keys to the MK14 - a bit like doug's page - just using the real MK14. Will need to see if my web skills can manage that

Stay safe
David
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Old 15th Nov 2021, 8:58 am   #132
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: MK14 Programming Interface

Apart from the opportunities for schoolboy humour the main problem I can see is the possibility of what might be called 'us contention', or what happens when more than one of us tries to use it at the same time.

I've seen similar issues with respect to steerable scenic webcams, where I go to have a look in a particular direction of interest only to find that someone on the other side of the world is trying to look at something else.

I don't know if Doug Rice's emulator copes with this by running a new instance of the emulator for each extra visitor to the site, but it is obviously not practical to have up to 10 actual MK14s / replicas running side by side in case that many people all want to have a go at the same time.
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Old 15th Nov 2021, 10:34 am   #133
Slothie
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Default Re: MK14 Programming Interface

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusHardware View Post
I don't know if Doug Rice's emulator copes with this by running a new instance of the emulator for each extra visitor to the site, but it is obviously not practical to have up to 10 actual MK14s / replicas running side by side in case that many people all want to have a go at the same time.
Dougs emulator is written in Javascript and runs in the browser, using the processor in your computer

A web-driven MK14 I guess would have to have some kind of booking system I guess!
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Old 15th Nov 2021, 10:43 am   #134
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: MK14 Programming Interface

Quote:
Dougs emulator is written in Javascript and runs in the browser, using the processor in your computer
Well, that illustrates how little I understand these things.

Quote:
A web-driven MK14 I guess would have to have some kind of booking system I guess!
Either that, or some kind of Darwinian obstacle course for prospective users to have to get through.

You could maybe have it so that whoever is currently on it 'owns' it (...other people landing on the page see "System is currently in use") until they leave the page or until there has been no activity from them for 'x' elapsed time.
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Old 16th Nov 2021, 8:45 pm   #135
DeltaAlpha52
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Default Re: MK14 Programming Interface

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusHardware View Post
I was going to say that up to a point, this is quite similar in concept to Doug Rice's online MK14 emulator (where the MK14 is software emulated and represented graphically) but I can't find any working links to it at the moment.
I think that that is a very interesting site - although I'm not sure about the 2 sets of keys

Well I've worked out how I can use AJAX (wow learning a lot about web pages and w3school is very helpful) to allow you to click on "keys" or send a "text" box to send instructions like F20MC4 to load C4 into address F20.
Took a look at how Doug had get the keys on the web page and will try something similar.

One problem so far is how to make the form large enough on the modern phone screen

Oh I do like the smilies

Take care
David
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Old 16th Nov 2021, 9:51 pm   #136
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: MK14 Programming Interface

I think the two keypads on DR's emulator are meant to work best with mobile devices and PCs / Mice respectively. If I could wave a magic wand I would have the page present an appropriate user interface matching whatever the visitor appeared to be using, so a mobile-specific site or 'skin' if the visitor comes visiting on a mobile device.

As least he has provided for both instances, too many mainstream web sites have been 'ruined for mobile' ie, they only present a mobile-friendly appearance with very large text and images, little or no actual information and acres and acres of vertical scrolling required to get to even the most basic information, even if you view the site on a PC.
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Old 20th Nov 2021, 8:42 pm   #137
DeltaAlpha52
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Default Re: MK14 Programming Interface

Well I've done an update on the MK14 web keys sketch and uploaded it to my github folder.

It seems to work okay, although I expect there are bugs in it there always are

I sorted out a "static" version of the webserver that gives some idea of what it looks like at http://www.saturn5.force9.co.uk/mk14program - there is little behind the pages but what the heck it's shows something.

I even managed to make a page where you can send keystrokes to the MK14 - either from a text box or by clicking on the buttons. see http://www.saturn5.force9.co.uk/keystrokes, of course the keys don't actually go to the MK14. It seems to work for both my PC and my mobile - but maybe others can tell me it don't.

If I put my ESP8266 on the web and provided a web cam we could have a web attached MK14

Stay safe
David
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Old 21st Nov 2021, 10:17 am   #138
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: MK14 Programming Interface

I just had a brief look - seems like the goal of an uploader with a GUI front end is well on the way to completion. I can tell you honestly that this is not something I would ever have been able to do as it would just involve too much of a learning curve for me, starting from zero knowledge of web programming.

I like the 'keypad' - what font did you use for the key legends, as it looks exactly right? The only change I would suggest there is to capitalise the first letter of Go, Mem, Abort as you have already done with Term.

I did try clicking on a few buttons but got a message to the effect that it was 'on test'.
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Old 21st Nov 2021, 10:28 am   #139
Slothie
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Default Re: MK14 Programming Interface

So who's going to be the first to have a MK14 serving web pages via the SIO line?
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Old 21st Nov 2021, 6:35 pm   #140
DeltaAlpha52
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Default Re: MK14 Programming Interface

Thanks - updated the keypad to capitalise those keys - does look better.

I'm trying to get a proper message when you press a key but not succeeded as yet - it's not actually attached to a real MK14 - maybe I could do that later - but I'd have to leave it running all the time
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