Cotton Braiding Machines - wire covering etc...

[ScottBouch]

Hi group,

I've recently taken an interest in cotton braiding machines, used to make diamond pattern rope, shoelaces, and vintage cable coverings!

A big interest of mine is vintage aircrew flying helmets, headsets, and headphones.

The wiring harnesses of helmets from WW2 through to the 70's were generally cotton covered. These are a little hard to find these days. I have a few in need of repair, and have thought about re-manufacturing a few for display purposes.

Does anyone have any information on braiding machines? Ideally, I'd like to find a working example, but don't mind a little restoration.

Also I'm ideally looking for a small-ish machine, and of course, cost has to be minimal!

Does anyone have any experiences from past workplaces?

Cheers, Scott

[ScottBouch]

As it is a subject that I know zero about, I'd like to try and find some information on how different patterns are achieved in the lay of the cotton.

Most of the looms / harnesses I'm interested in repairing / replicating have a pattern where the diamonds are formed by 3 or 4 thread widths. A bit like the nylon braided cable sleving you can buy, also similar concept to braided cable screens..

I thik the size of the diamond may affect the loom's flexibility...?

I wonder if this is achieved by using lets say, a machine with 16 bobbin places, but only fitting 12 bobbins?

Anyone know anyone who used to work in textiles?

Cheers, Scott

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[ScottBouch]

Just read the rules of this section... It's not quite a household sewing machine, but is for a radio purpose! Hopefully thats good enough..

Cheers, Scott

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[greenstar]

Scott, if you have no success here I wonder if there is anyone in Leicestershire Museums with some knowledge? There used to be a long gallery of textile machines in the Newark Museum. I believe they were moved somewhere ... there certainly should be, with Leicester being a leading manufacturer of such machinery.
Tony

[Alan Stepney]

If someone can find / make a cotton braiding machine, and could make some lengths of suitable size, it could certainly help with some of our restorations.

[audiomik]

Scott,

There used to be many machines suitable for braiding cotton and other fibres in the Nottingham/Derby/Leicester area of the country. Unfortunately I think these are now long gone.

However as these factories have long closed, you might try contacting the Ropery at The Chatham Historic Dockyard for information on how to do braiding with machines where they still lay up traditional ropes.

Mik

[ScottBouch]

Thank you for the tips... It seems as though our once very local industry for braided items is now in China... I've Googled for these machines, and can only find Chinese ones... there is a nifty home-made Lego one on YouTube though!

New Walk museum would be a good place to start when looking for local history, thanks!

On the net, the biggest reference I can find to cotton braided cables is from people restoring classic cars and motorbikes. There seem to be a few companies around who will braid your loom if you send it to them.

Please see attached images of leather C-Type helmet and cotton braided comms cable (WW2 and early jet era) and H-Type Oxygen Mask with cotton braided Microphone cable.

I'll write another post with images of another helmet in a worse state.

Cheers, Scott

[ScottBouch]

Ok, so this is a G-type helmet (early Cold War jets), and a spare loom, both in very poor state.

I'm tempted to say, hell, why don't I try to make a machine? I have a little lathe, which will soon become a CNC milling machine. Maybe I'm gettting a little too ambitious but there would be a market for the cables I could braid! we'll see....

Cheers, Scott

[ScottBouch]

Could also apply braided Screening to cables with such a machine.....

hmmmmm....

[ScottBouch]

I've been doing a little more research, and the term 'Maypole Braiding Machine' returns a good number of hits... Including some DIY Meccano built braiders!

Need to find some operator training notes, or an instruction book in order to understand the different weaves, and how to achieve them...

If you look closely at my photos, you'll see about 3 or 4 cotton threads in parallel making up each diamond; I wonder if each bobbin is actually 3 or 4 bobbins?

Cheers, Scott

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[Herald1360]

Would a variation on "French Knitting" be any use here?

[Refugee]

North Mills at Belper have a working braiding machine as an exhibit.
The guided tours are very cheap too.

http://belpernorthmill.org/

[ScottBouch]

Hi Chris, good thoughts,

I did look at that as a cheaper/simpler alternative just earlier today, but the end result is quite different to the diamond pattern braided finish.

If you didn't mind what the finish was, and just wanted a cotton covered cable, then it is a really cheap and simple method!

Cheers,
Scott

[Darren-UK]

Originally Posted by Refugee

North Mills at Belper have a working braiding machine as an exhibit.

I think I've solved Britain's braiding problem. As the Belper machine is working, Scott could work there as a volunteer making braided whatever, offer it at a fair price to forum members and donate the money to North Mills.

Sorted.

[ScottBouch]

Hi Darren,

A fun idea! But my time is very constrained (1year old to look after) so my only free tinkering time is after she's in bed... So I can achieve things from the shed these days, and thats about as far afield as I can get!

I've just looked it up, it's just North of Derby, so not a million miles away. Probably worth a visit to see...

Cheers, Scott

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[Refugee]

The other thing to look at is the sock making machine.
It shows more likeness to the "French Knitting" and is also a working exhibit.
There may be some value in asking the curator to inch it through a complete cycle of operation while you take a sequence of photos.
The curators are friendly.

[Anthony Thomas]

Just a suggestion but have you contacted the company that makes replacement wireing looms for cars? very sorry but cannot remember their name off hand. They even offered to cotton cover home made looms and recover existing looms in their machines, costs and whether they still are in existence I know not of.

Here is an inexpensive French Knitting machine that might help on some straight lengths:
http://www.haguedirect.co.uk/acatalo...ccessoris.html

If you were to construct a 3 or 4 bobbin machine then this machine might just be the food for thought you are looking for?

Best of luck
Tony

[Anthony Thomas]

Here is another link, this time to Autosparks, they do bespoke looms and I an sure they can help you with some advice at least.

http://www.autosparks.co.uk/index.php?content_page=53

Tony

[ScottBouch]

Thanks chaps,

French knitting would pass visually at a distance, and would be fine for certain restorations.

The idea with diamond braiding is that the weave offers a lot of strain relief that other cable coverings can't offer, as the threads are generally running the the same direction as the wires, but the twists around the cable allow a degree of flexibility. You could argue that the strain relief is superior to plastic covered cables, as it doesn't stretch.

I am tempted to have a think about building my own braiding machine (what a mammoth project!)... I was working on the first stages of building up my 100 year old Drummond "Round Bed" lathe (refurbishing a 24Vdc motor and assembling pulleys) yesterday. I chose to use a DC motor as speed-control will be much more straightforward.

I'm hoping in a few months or so to have it up an running as a 3 axis antique CNC milling machine / lathe, so you never know, a year or so may see the beginnings of a braiding machine!

Cheers, Scott.

[Anthony Thomas]

This sounds like fun to me Scott

Do keep us updated with photos etc, never know might have some obscure part collecting dust that you could use in your project?

Tony