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Television Standards Converters, Modulators etc Standards converters, modulators anything else for providing signals to vintage televisions. |
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9th Aug 2008, 6:17 pm | #1 |
Hexode
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Michigan USA
Posts: 325
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Latest converter project
I thought some here would be interested in my latest project. I've been working on and off with it for three years, and have spent most of the last year making steady progress. For this converter I wanted every feature of the other converters combined into one. This one can take any video input (NTSC, PAL, PAL(M), PAL(N), PAL(Nc), Secam) (composite, s-video, component YUV, RGB, RGBS) and output any known mechanical and electronic format (I think I have them all). I've coded every RF System and every channel into it (over 500 channels on 27 systems). It has a -12 to +20dB RF amplifier built in to the RF output.
For electronic standards it can generate any composite color format including NTSC, PAL, Secam and field sequential. I've coded all the experimental color formats I could find into it like 405 NTSC, 405 PAL and 405 Secam. For mechanical standards it outputs full simultaneous color along with the standard monochrome output. It has a full proc-amp built in, so the outputs are all individually adjustable. In one picture you can see the plugin driver board. This board has three current drivers that can drive an RGB or monohrome LED load up to 20W. It also has a 20W audio amplifier that can drive the phonic coil on mechanical sets. I wanted it to have the highest quality possible, so the video is digitized at 10 bits, while there are five 12 bit video DAC's for the output. All processing is done at a minimum of 14 bits. So did I go to far overboard? Darryl |
9th Aug 2008, 6:19 pm | #2 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 6,644
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Re: Latest converter project
Not at all. Sounds a jolly useful device to me!
How much? Cheers, Steve P.
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If we've always had it, why is the Car Boot open? You're not sneaking another Old TV in are you...? |
9th Aug 2008, 6:25 pm | #3 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, UK.
Posts: 5,420
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Re: Latest converter project
Hi Darryl
A very interesting converter and again no doubt will be a big seller, mind you I think I may get a divorce if I buy yet another converter, so all will be hush hush when I order mine Trevor
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Cheers, Trevor. MM0KJJ. RSGB, GQRP, WACRAL, K&LARC. Member |
9th Aug 2008, 6:36 pm | #4 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: St.Ippolyts, Hitchin, Hertfordshire QRA IO91UW
Posts: 3,517
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Re: Latest converter project
Just wondering where the tea comes out, and is the kitchen sink mounted on the top lid?
Certainly a comprehensive unit!
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Engineers make things work and have spare bits when finished |
9th Aug 2008, 6:43 pm | #5 |
Hexode
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Michigan USA
Posts: 325
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Re: Latest converter project
Hi Steve and Trevor,
You may not want to get too excited yet. Since cost wasn't even on my mind on this one, just making it do everything I could think of, it's most likely going to be expensive to build. I just started adding up the parts cost for the basic unit, and I'm somewhere around $500. (There's nothing the base unit can't do without the driver daughter card. It just pulls external functionality required for mechanical sets inside) While most part costs are actually lower than the original Multi-Standard unit, there's just so much more stuff in this one. The LCD/switch board alone has $40 of parts on it. I'll be sending some quotes out for assembly of the circuit boards this week, but this gives you an idea where we're headed. So now did I go overboard Actually it is fun to play with the unit. Everything is automatic (although can be overridden). Just plug any video source into any video input, select the output standard, and your done. For mechanical sets that require an external reference, it even automatically detects if you have connected a Line, Frame or Mains reference. Everything is held in EEPROM individually for each standard, so for instance, you can set 525/30i to RF System M, channel 45, NTSC, and 405/25i to RF System A, channel 4, Secam, and then just selecting the main standard, everything is restored. With the help of some forum members here, I even have the menu's coded in English, German, French and Spanish. In the end, this project became an exercise in "what's possible". Darryl |
9th Aug 2008, 6:47 pm | #6 | |
Hexode
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Michigan USA
Posts: 325
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Re: Latest converter project
Quote:
That's not far from the truth Sean The year before I started working seriously on the design was spent just contemplating what could fit inside, and what made sense inside. I took a lot of feedback from others on what was good and bad about the other converters and tried to address these issues. I also wanted to make it flexible enough for future additions. If you think the kitchen sink is a good idea, I can see about adding it ;-) Darryl |
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10th Aug 2008, 6:34 am | #7 |
Nonode
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 2,525
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Re: Latest converter project
Absolutely amazing, Darryl . You are a top-notch product developer.
Steve
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10th Aug 2008, 9:32 am | #8 |
Octode
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Solihull, West Midlands and Beaford, Devon
Posts: 1,626
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Re: Latest converter project
I'd love one of those things Darryl, but I think I may have to remortgage the house to afford one. A top-notch job.
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10th Aug 2008, 12:11 pm | #9 |
Octode
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,885
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Re: Latest converter project
I'm drooling! Any chance of choosing a variable zoom, orientation and curve for the mechanical standards, I bet you've already thought of that though!
I'll have to start putting stuff up on ebay to get the money together, now where to start....radios - no, tellys - no, I know the cooker, bath, fridge... Dom |
10th Aug 2008, 12:24 pm | #10 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, UK.
Posts: 5,420
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Re: Latest converter project
Hi.
I wonder if Darryl would swap the converter for an Audi 80 Avant? Oh dear I forgot there's no road to the States Trevor
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Cheers, Trevor. MM0KJJ. RSGB, GQRP, WACRAL, K&LARC. Member |
10th Aug 2008, 1:43 pm | #11 |
Hexode
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Michigan USA
Posts: 325
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Re: Latest converter project
Thanks for the comments guys.
Dom, Right now I do have a fixed zoom for correcting letterboxed 16:9 images with pan functionality, but not a variable zoom. You can choose the orientation (line/frame scan directions) for all standards. For the curvature correction, I have to admit I missed that one. I had been asked for this in the past, but there was no easy way to enter the radius of the disk. Now there is so I may have take another look at this one. Trevor, If it wasn't for this global warming thing, the North Atlantic might freeze over and I could meet you in Labrador ;-) Darryl |
10th Aug 2008, 8:29 pm | #12 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Cambridge, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 91
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Re: Latest converter project
Wow! Top job.
Does it do NICAM audio encoding? We'll be needed that soon when analogue shuts down. Why does it appear to have two power inputs? Steve. |
10th Aug 2008, 8:45 pm | #13 | |
Hexode
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Michigan USA
Posts: 325
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Re: Latest converter project
Quote:
No special audio coding yet, but the the design is certainly capable of any audio coding. The question becomes is there enough room in the fpga? Right now I'm using the largest one in a leaded package. I can get over twice the resources I have now for a modest incremental cost increase by going to a leadless package. The one power jack is a 2.1 X 5.5mm for the power input. The unit has five switching supplies in it for the various voltages it requires, so it can handle anything from 8-20V at about 2 to 3W typical. The second jack is a 2.5 X 5.5mm jack for switched power out. It is basically just the power on the input jack routed through a FET capable of 4A. This FET can be enabled individually for each standard. The idea is to be able to power external devices or add-ons and have them switched from the main unit. The first one I have in mind is a 300VDC supply and current driver for supplying actual neon lamps on mechanical sets. I had thought about adding this to the driver daughter card but just didn't like the idea of 300V floating around inside the box. Darryl |
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10th Aug 2008, 10:07 pm | #14 | |
Octode
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Newbury, Berkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,770
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Re: Latest converter project
Quote:
WRT the above. Is there a particular reason you are reluctant to use BGA packaged devices ? We were quite nervous using large BGA's on a project we did a while ago, but in actual fact the assembly using BGA'a gave us less problems than a lot of smaller leaded packages.
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10th Aug 2008, 11:22 pm | #15 | |
Hexode
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Michigan USA
Posts: 325
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Re: Latest converter project
Quote:
Like you, I have found bga's to actually be very reliable and easier for a manufacture to assemble, but they preclude the do-it-yourself ability of leaded devices. To keep development costs down, I hand build all the prototypes. I have had some success with placing bga's by hand, but without being able to inspect them, I just don't like using them for something like this unless absolutely necessary. If the expected demand was higher, then a bga would be a good way to go. Darryl |
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12th Aug 2008, 8:59 pm | #16 |
Rest in Peace
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somerset, UK.
Posts: 2,356
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Re: Latest converter project
Amazing ! very impressive
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12th Aug 2008, 9:41 pm | #17 |
Retired Dormant Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: North London, UK.
Posts: 6,168
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Re: Latest converter project
I sympathise over the BGA issue. If you want plenty of logic in the FPGA it's BGA only. BGAs are great for production line manufacture. No fine legs to get bent out of shape.
Digital SECAM coding seems like a horrible thing to do but as usual Darryl has invented a good solution. Are the 12 bit video DACs using the same hybrid R/2R and pulse width technology as the previous Aurora? |
12th Aug 2008, 10:45 pm | #18 | |
Hexode
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Michigan USA
Posts: 325
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Re: Latest converter project
Quote:
BGA's are definitely the only way to go for the maximum density. They are also much better thermally, and electrically due to the lower impedances. I think this is the last converter of this scale I will do with a QFP. The SECAM encoding wasn't as difficult as I anticipated. The worst part was the pre-emphesis filters, especially the LF one. This one turned out to be very critical to correct operation. This unit uses all off the shelf DAC's. The main video is handled by a Burr Brown DAC2932. It has two 40MHz 12bit DAC's for the video, and four 1MHz 12bit DAC's for control. The two high speed ones were required since the video sent to the RF modulator is processed through a digital sound trap filter while the one to the output connector is not. I had originally hoped to use three of the lower speed DAC's for the simultaneous RGB mechanical output, but since they could not be updated simultaneously, which would result in a phase error between the outputs, I added three TI TLV5616 1MHz 12bit DAC's for this purpose. The four in the DAC2932 ended up being used for system control like setting the gain of the RF output amplifier, and the threshold for the reference input. Darryl |
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15th Aug 2008, 8:22 pm | #19 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: 60510 la Neuville en Hez France
Posts: 71
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Re: Latest converter project
Hello darryl,
Wonderfull I spoke with Jérome about that it's a real good and pratical machine for a lot of collector's. Sure even price is 800$ you have a lot of client first is me I will earn money friendly wilfrid |
15th Aug 2008, 9:51 pm | #20 |
Retired Dormant Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Leicester, UK.
Posts: 809
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Re: Latest converter project
$800-$900 is not vastly different from the Domino/Dinosaur converters I believe? These were around £400. And this is so much more flexible, giving just about every standard you can think of! I will be saving for one of these.
Cheers BG |