Philips reel to reel

[Copey84]

Hi all, I have a Philips reel to reel type EL 3587/4200 that belongs to my grandad and he was hoping I could get it going again.
The record button mechanism needs connecting, but I'm not sure how it goes together. Is anyone on here familiar with this type of recorder? If so do you know of any technical drawing available of the mechanism that would be of use to me, or possibly a photo showing how it goes together.
If anyone can think of anything else to look out for on this type of recorder please let me know. Have to change rewind belt as it has turned to goo, common fault on these machines I think.
Appreciate any replys, thanks.

[Copey84]

Hello again, I've included some pics of the recorder, thought they might help to show what I'm talking about.
The silver record button needs connecting to the cable, seems simple enough but I can't get it working properly.
Hoping someone on here familiar with this type of recorder could help me out, the project's going nowhere until I get it working.

[TonyDuell]

I have a Philips EL3586. If necessary I can dig it out and take the casing off. I suspect it's quite similar, I do remember a bowden cable for the record button.

[Cobaltblue]

Paul Has the manufacturers Service for the EL3586 (which looks remarkably similar to the EL3587)
http://www.service-data.com/product....81/1465/m14681

Extract below.

I have a couple of the Cossor CR1620s again very similar and ISTR that the Bowden cable "inner" is held in place with a small flat clip which has passed through the small hole in the Chassis adjacent to the record button.

The U cutout in the bottom of the record button then pushes the "outer sleeve" of the cable to operate the record switch.

Proper dis- assembly the switch end of the Bowden cable is the end that is supposed to be disconnected for servicing.

Cheers

Mike T

[wd40addict]

Beware, I was given one of these once and every rubber part (not just belts) had turned to goo. One of the rare times I've had to throw in the towel on a vintage repair :-( It's too long ago to remember exactly how the drive system works, but do check the idlers etc. to see if they're serviceable.

[Copey84]

Hi guys, thanks for replies. Sorry I couldn't get back to you sooner, been a busy day.
The part of the mechanism I'm having problems with is the connection of the wire to the silver push button located on the top of the recorder.
When I connected the wire to the push button I can't get any tension on the wire, and the button is too loose I think.
Cobaltblue, would you have a detailed drawing like the one posted showing the other end of cable connecting to push button. It's that connection I need detail on.

[Cobaltblue]

Sorry that's the only drawing in the manual of that part.

There is no tension in the cable that I can recall the "inner" is fixed to the chassis next to the record button and held there with a clip.

The clip is shaped to fit the "crimped end" of the cable to prevent it being pulled back through the hole.

It free to move up away from the hole.

The top of that drawing shows the Chassis immediately beside the record button and the clip that prevents the end of the cable being pulled back through the hole..

Its possible your cable is damaged and missing the end crimp of course.

I cant take any pictures at the moment as the sets are in Poole and I wont be going back until Mid September.

Cheers

Mike T

[Copey84]

Hi cobaltblue thanks for explaining, got a better idea of how it goes together now.
Will have another go at it tomorrow.

[Copey84]

Good afternoon all, I got the record button working thanks to posts I received.
Last night I started removing other parts that needed cleaning.
Took a few photos to give me an idea of where everything goes, unfortunately I can't figure out where this one part fits.
I was hoping someone familiar with these machines might know where it goes.
I also bought a copy of the service manual thinking it might have an exploded diagram but it doesn't, does have alot of useful information that will be of use later.
Does anyone know of a exploded diagram that is available for these machines?
Kind of embarrassing i should have paid more attention to where parts went. I have
Included a few pics of recorder and the part, thought they might be of use.
Appreciate any replys.

[Copey84]

Hi all, have been busy lately so not had time to look at the recorder.
Going to have another attempt at putting it back together this evening, trying to figure it out from memory and a few photos which is not easy. If anyone is familiar with the recorder and where the part I'm having trouble with goes please could you let me know.
Thought I'd ask one last time as I'm kinda stuck at the moment.
Appreciate any replies, thanks.

[Copey84]

Hello again, after searching the internet I found the exploded diagram I was looking for and have been able to put the recorder back together.
Having cleaned the tape heads and replaced one of the belts I thought I'd try the tape reels to see if my efforts had made any difference, unfortunately not.
Although the tape runs through the heads smoothly all I'm getting is distortion through the speaker.
Have tried adjusting the tape head but no change, tried recording and playback but nothing.
Was thinking the tape head is not working properly but not sure how to tell. I have an oscilloscope but not sure what signals I should be looking for from tape head. Would appreciate if anyone could advise on how to check the tape head to see if it is working properly.
Have thought about changing all the electrolytic capacitors to see if it makes a difference, prefer not to unless I know it will, quite a few of them and not easily got at, plus there's no sign of any bulging or leakage.
If anyone can think of anything else worth changing or testing please let me know.
Thanks

[suebutcher]

What I'd do is disconnect the wires from the tape head, check that the head isn't open circuit, and then inject a low level signal into those wires to test the playback circuit while the recorder is running in play. No tape needed for this test. If the head is conducting, and there's no response from the audio amp when you run the test, chances are the head's still OK, and the problem is somewhere else. I'd check the loudspeaker for conduction next, then suspect dirty switches. Leave the electrolytics till later. Even after fifty years Philips electros are likely to be just a bit low in value rather than completely dead.

A nice machine, I didn't know they were made in black. I've only seen grey examples.

[julie_m]

Beware: Only use a digital meter (or an AC bridge) to test tape heads. If you use an analogue meter, the high test current will leave the head core magnetised, and your tapes will literally get quieter and quieter with every listen. (Been there, got the T-shirt .....)

[Copey84]

Hi sue tape head isn't open circuit has a resistance of 30 ohms.
Will I connect oscilloscope across tape head wires with tape head disconnected?
Then press play to see what sort of signal I get?

[Copey84]

Thanks Julie been using digital meter, good to know though.

[Copey84]

Hi sue when you say inject a signal does it have to be from a signal generator?
Have tape heads disconnected again so thought I'd take photos, maybe you can tell if there ok to use.

[TonyDuell]

The second head looks find, but I am guessing that's the erase head. The first head seems to have the plastic moulding deforned and the gap looks far too wide. This may be the way the photo is taken, but I wonder if the head face is seriously damaged. It should look smooth and much like the second head.

As for the signal, the replay amplifier is very sensitive. Normally just touching the signal wire (inner of the screened cable to the amplifier) will cause a strong mains hum in the speaker. As this is a transistorised recorder, running off 9V, there is no risk of shock if you do that. So connect batteries (or the mains adapter), turn it on (I think you need to press the replay key (middle) on this machine) and touch the inner of the screened cable that went to the record/playback head.

[Copey84]

Hi Tony, the first photo is the erase head second is the play record head. Erase head just seems deformed in photo. Tapped the centre core of wire that connects to play record head. With the head disconnected the tapping is picked up on speaker, does this confirm that amp and speaker are ok. How can I tell if head is working, or have I missed something?

[ricard]

Also, erase head gaps are much wider than other heads, it doesn't look unduly wide to me.

[suebutcher]

Hi Copey, sorry about the slow response, I'm asleep while most of you awake of course. 30 ohms is typical for a record head (although I'm not sure exactly what it should be for this machine) and the buzz when you touch the wire suggests that the playback circuit is OK. I'd try reconnecting the head, and gently placing a smooth steel object like a tea spoon handle against the gap. There should be a thump from the loudspeaker if the head's OK. Warning: if the steel object is magnetised, you will leave the head magnetised, which is a bad thing and requires a demagnetiser to fix.