What exactly have I just bought?! A 1930s Radiogram - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

EF80TVVALVE · 26th Feb 2021, 8:16 pm

Hi all
Well after a tip off from a friend today I was put into contact with the vendor of this beautiful beast. Fast forward to this evening and its made its way to my living room. I honestly don't know what I'm going to do with it, it is HUGE, I don't really have the room at all, in fact the double garage it was stored in made it look much smaller.

I like it and I'm going to have a sort out and see if I can find a home for it in the living room but can anyone shed any light on this? The amplifier is a push pull type with Mazda PP5/400 valves, a garrard autochanger, Parmeko mains transformers and a BTH loudspeaker. It looks like a small company made it, probably specialising in sound equipment for hotels or dance halls which I presume this was originally used for judging from the size and output power. Alas there are no markings from whoever assembled it which is a shame so it leaves me somewhat in the dark as to who made it.

What do you all think? Was this likely made for a public place or just very high end home equipment?

stacman · 26th Feb 2021, 8:49 pm

That's going to generate some heat!

Radio Wrangler · 26th Feb 2021, 9:05 pm

THREE meters!

Presumably it was expected to be in the hands of someone who could make sense of their readings?

David

PaulR · 26th Feb 2021, 9:32 pm

Totally spectacular. It looks museum quality. I am very impressed.

paulsherwin · 26th Feb 2021, 9:45 pm

It's a beautiful thing and is in fine condition, but it's a perfect illustration of the difficulties involved in keeping such things working and unmolested. It's completely impractical for a typical domestic environment, and is largely useless.

I agree that it was probably built for professional use in the early 1930s, perhaps in a private club. The speaker looks huge - 18"?

EF80TVVALVE · 26th Feb 2021, 9:47 pm

Thank you for the kind words thus far, I initially thought it was some kind of modern repro steampunk look-alike initially with all those meters but it wasn't until further inspection that I worked out it was actually a genuine piece. I really do love it not only for its workings but it is also a wonderful thing to look at and very handsomely made.

I'd like to get it going I think, but I'm going to spend this weekend assessing it and working out what will be best, there are a lot of bits that don't really make sense, like this threaded brass rod that leads from a front control to nowhere and the whole PSU is just a mess of loose wires, but it all looks to be there which is the important thing.

EF80TVVALVE · 26th Feb 2021, 9:51 pm

Thanks Paul, yes unfortunately it could have been another donor at the expense of audiophoolery but I'd like to make sure this doesn't happen with it. It's not exactly a Decca or RGD, where there will always be examples crawling out of the woodwork and to me that makes it much more worthy of saving it. I haven't measured the speaker yet but the grille/aperture is 14 inch in diameter so I think around 16 inch or so would be right.

kalee20 · 26th Feb 2021, 9:51 pm

W..O..W..!!

That's going to have some bragging points!

Looking forward to updates, and what the circuit turns out to be!

ajgriff · 26th Feb 2021, 9:55 pm

To me it looks like it's been built into a piece of furniture which was originally made for some other purpose.

Alan

paulsherwin · 26th Feb 2021, 9:55 pm

You have to remember that it will have fallen seriously out of fashion in the 1950s, and may have spent the last 70 years in storage, as suggested by the lack of modifications or 'modernisation'. It's amazing that it's survived in such good cosmetic condition.

MeerKat · 26th Feb 2021, 10:00 pm

I'm glad I haven't come across one of these, I would have had to walk away crying!

EF80TVVALVE · 26th Feb 2021, 10:08 pm

Hi Paul, as far as I'm aware the vendor had it for 20 years although I will have to ask him where he found it. Chances are if it were in a Hotel or Club it could have been in dry storage rather than being ripped apart when it was updated.

Room is a problem, at the moment I don't have a proper place for it, I need to have a re-arrange and probably get rid of some records and cabinet in order to accommodate it.

AC/HL · 27th Feb 2021, 12:52 am

The speaker grill seems to be BTH from around 1928 according to Radio Radio.

Herald1360 · 27th Feb 2021, 11:40 am

The PP5-400 valves are a bit later than that, around 1931 according to r-type.org . Other valves / components or stations on the dial (if any) in the radio unit may move it later yet....

EF80TVVALVE · 27th Feb 2021, 12:11 pm

I did wonder if it was BTH too, it certainly looks similar to one of their stand alone speakers from the time. I'll be looking over it more today and hopefully provide some better photos, I need to start drawing out a circuit too and make sense of all the parts that are all disconnected and loose.

Sideband · 27th Feb 2021, 12:37 pm

I don't know much about items as old as this but I can't help thinking it looks like a 'bitsa'! Bit's o this and bits o that! The radio part looks older than the record deck and those meters

The whole thing looks 'contrived' somehow and definitely not for general domestic use. It's been well done though and is certainly worth reviving.

paulsherwin · 27th Feb 2021, 1:05 pm

It's all plausibly early/mid 30s. Remember it would have been made in very small quantities, and may even have been a one off or a prototype.

27th Feb 2021, 2:21 pm

Was there ever a lid on the electronics section, if not it could be a "demonstrator" showing off the latest tech. to radio shop customers. If so very, very few would have been made and at the high standard this one is.

(Lucky b, if I had found this the kitchen would have to be remodelled (an American phrase I like, one of very few)

rontech · 27th Feb 2021, 2:31 pm

I think it looks a "BITSA" too but would love to have it to play with! I wonder if the meters were used to set the bias on the output valves?

EF80TVVALVE · 27th Feb 2021, 2:59 pm

There would have been a lid originally, there is felt in the corners suggesting that something would be put on top, probably a wood framed mesh to allow for ventilation. The radio and amplifier were constructed at the same time, the amp chassis is separate to the radio but all are constructed with the same metalwork, valve bases etc. Two of the meters are for the power supply one showing volts and the other amps. The one near the radio section is for mA so I presume it's for output valve biasing, but the valves have cathode bias resistors to chassis so I need to look into this more.

This really does come from the days when some radio businesses were running from small workshops, old stables, behind shops etc so everything hints to me that this was made by a small company specialising in this type of equipment, not big enough to use all of their own parts but instead used what was on the market at the time.

26th Feb 2021, 8:16 pm	#1
EF80TVVALVE Octode Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Leicester, UK. Posts: 1,433	What exactly have I just bought?! A 1930s Radiogram Hi all Well after a tip off from a friend today I was put into contact with the vendor of this beautiful beast. Fast forward to this evening and its made its way to my living room. I honestly don't know what I'm going to do with it, it is HUGE, I don't really have the room at all, in fact the double garage it was stored in made it look much smaller. I like it and I'm going to have a sort out and see if I can find a home for it in the living room but can anyone shed any light on this? The amplifier is a push pull type with Mazda PP5/400 valves, a garrard autochanger, Parmeko mains transformers and a BTH loudspeaker. It looks like a small company made it, probably specialising in sound equipment for hotels or dance halls which I presume this was originally used for judging from the size and output power. Alas there are no markings from whoever assembled it which is a shame so it leaves me somewhat in the dark as to who made it. What do you all think? Was this likely made for a public place or just very high end home equipment? Attached Thumbnails

26th Feb 2021, 8:49 pm	#2
stacman Hexode Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 278	Re: What exactly have I just bought?! A 1930s Radiogram That's going to generate some heat!

26th Feb 2021, 9:05 pm	#3
Radio Wrangler Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Fife, Scotland, UK. Posts: 22,876	Re: What exactly have I just bought?! A 1930s Radiogram THREE meters! Presumably it was expected to be in the hands of someone who could make sense of their readings? David __________________ Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done

26th Feb 2021, 9:32 pm	#4
PaulR Dekatron Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southport Lancashire, UK. Posts: 3,233	Re: What exactly have I just bought?! A 1930s Radiogram Totally spectacular. It looks museum quality. I am very impressed. __________________ Paul

26th Feb 2021, 9:45 pm	#5
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,947	Re: What exactly have I just bought?! A 1930s Radiogram It's a beautiful thing and is in fine condition, but it's a perfect illustration of the difficulties involved in keeping such things working and unmolested. It's completely impractical for a typical domestic environment, and is largely useless. I agree that it was probably built for professional use in the early 1930s, perhaps in a private club. The speaker looks huge - 18"?

26th Feb 2021, 9:47 pm	#6
EF80TVVALVE Octode Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Leicester, UK. Posts: 1,433	Re: What exactly have I just bought?! A 1930s Radiogram Thank you for the kind words thus far, I initially thought it was some kind of modern repro steampunk look-alike initially with all those meters but it wasn't until further inspection that I worked out it was actually a genuine piece. I really do love it not only for its workings but it is also a wonderful thing to look at and very handsomely made. I'd like to get it going I think, but I'm going to spend this weekend assessing it and working out what will be best, there are a lot of bits that don't really make sense, like this threaded brass rod that leads from a front control to nowhere and the whole PSU is just a mess of loose wires, but it all looks to be there which is the important thing. Attached Thumbnails

26th Feb 2021, 9:51 pm	#7
EF80TVVALVE Octode Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Leicester, UK. Posts: 1,433	Re: What exactly have I just bought?! A 1930s Radiogram Thanks Paul, yes unfortunately it could have been another donor at the expense of audiophoolery but I'd like to make sure this doesn't happen with it. It's not exactly a Decca or RGD, where there will always be examples crawling out of the woodwork and to me that makes it much more worthy of saving it. I haven't measured the speaker yet but the grille/aperture is 14 inch in diameter so I think around 16 inch or so would be right.

26th Feb 2021, 9:51 pm	#8
kalee20 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Lynton, N. Devon, UK. Posts: 7,082	Re: What exactly have I just bought?! A 1930s Radiogram W..O..W..!! That's going to have some bragging points! Looking forward to updates, and what the circuit turns out to be!

26th Feb 2021, 9:55 pm	#9
ajgriff Nonode Join Date: May 2004 Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 2,587	Re: What exactly have I just bought?! A 1930s Radiogram To me it looks like it's been built into a piece of furniture which was originally made for some other purpose. Alan

26th Feb 2021, 10:00 pm	#11
MeerKat Hexode Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Ramsgate, Kent, UK. Posts: 298	Re: What exactly have I just bought?! A 1930s Radiogram I'm glad I haven't come across one of these, I would have had to walk away crying! __________________ Andrew Illegitimi non carborundum

26th Feb 2021, 10:08 pm	#12
EF80TVVALVE Octode Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Leicester, UK. Posts: 1,433	Re: What exactly have I just bought?! A 1930s Radiogram Hi Paul, as far as I'm aware the vendor had it for 20 years although I will have to ask him where he found it. Chances are if it were in a Hotel or Club it could have been in dry storage rather than being ripped apart when it was updated. Room is a problem, at the moment I don't have a proper place for it, I need to have a re-arrange and probably get rid of some records and cabinet in order to accommodate it.

27th Feb 2021, 12:52 am	#13
AC/HL Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 9,642	Re: What exactly have I just bought?! A 1930s Radiogram The speaker grill seems to be BTH from around 1928 according to Radio Radio.

27th Feb 2021, 11:40 am	#14
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,535	Re: What exactly have I just bought?! A 1930s Radiogram The PP5-400 valves are a bit later than that, around 1931 according to r-type.org . Other valves / components or stations on the dial (if any) in the radio unit may move it later yet.... __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O

27th Feb 2021, 12:11 pm	#15
EF80TVVALVE Octode Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Leicester, UK. Posts: 1,433	Re: What exactly have I just bought?! A 1930s Radiogram I did wonder if it was BTH too, it certainly looks similar to one of their stand alone speakers from the time. I'll be looking over it more today and hopefully provide some better photos, I need to start drawing out a circuit too and make sense of all the parts that are all disconnected and loose.

27th Feb 2021, 12:37 pm	#16
Sideband Dekatron Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Croydon, Surrey, UK. Posts: 7,572	Re: What exactly have I just bought?! A 1930s Radiogram I don't know much about items as old as this but I can't help thinking it looks like a 'bitsa'! Bit's o this and bits o that! The radio part looks older than the record deck and those meters The whole thing looks 'contrived' somehow and definitely not for general domestic use. It's been well done though and is certainly worth reviving. __________________ There are lots of brilliant keyboard players and then there is Rick Wakeman.....

27th Feb 2021, 1:05 pm	#17
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,947	Re: What exactly have I just bought?! A 1930s Radiogram It's all plausibly early/mid 30s. Remember it would have been made in very small quantities, and may even have been a one off or a prototype.

27th Feb 2021, 2:21 pm	#18
Guest Guest Posts: n/a	Re: What exactly have I just bought?! A 1930s Radiogram Was there ever a lid on the electronics section, if not it could be a "demonstrator" showing off the latest tech. to radio shop customers. If so very, very few would have been made and at the high standard this one is. (Lucky b, if I had found this the kitchen would have to be remodelled (an American phrase I like, one of very few)

27th Feb 2021, 2:31 pm	#19
rontech Heptode Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Southport, Merseyside, UK. Posts: 646	Re: What exactly have I just bought?! A 1930s Radiogram I think it looks a "BITSA" too but would love to have it to play with! I wonder if the meters were used to set the bias on the output valves? __________________ Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana

27th Feb 2021, 2:59 pm	#20
EF80TVVALVE Octode Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Leicester, UK. Posts: 1,433	Re: What exactly have I just bought?! A 1930s Radiogram There would have been a lid originally, there is felt in the corners suggesting that something would be put on top, probably a wood framed mesh to allow for ventilation. The radio and amplifier were constructed at the same time, the amp chassis is separate to the radio but all are constructed with the same metalwork, valve bases etc. Two of the meters are for the power supply one showing volts and the other amps. The one near the radio section is for mA so I presume it's for output valve biasing, but the valves have cathode bias resistors to chassis so I need to look into this more. This really does come from the days when some radio businesses were running from small workshops, old stables, behind shops etc so everything hints to me that this was made by a small company specialising in this type of equipment, not big enough to use all of their own parts but instead used what was on the market at the time.