Best performing late 50s, valve, VHF radio?

[stevehertz]

I love late 50s (early 60s) radios that have VHF. Especially the large ones that included multiple speakers and multiple tone controls. I have a collection of four Grundigs (photo attached), a Bush VHF94, Pye Fenman II and a Hacker Mayflower II.

There was also Saba, Telefunken a few others who made sets of this type and quality.

I've heard it said that the Saba sets take some beating and others believe that the Bush VHF 64/94 outperforms the Grundigs. Radiowars!

What is your favourite of this genre and what stories can you tell?

[Leon Crampin]

A console or radiogram is the way to go for good audio. One of the better German radiograms would qualify, although my Murphy A272C is pretty good within the limitations of a single 10" 'speaker and a single ended output stage.

With the Murphy, I have to admit to improving the audio HF response by tweaking the feedback network, but the baffle cabinet is far better than most enclosures for avoiding bass resonances.

However, much as I like the Murphy, a big German floor standing set would win the audio quality prize. The ELL80 and ECLL800 never really made it to the UK. Hacker could have made the effort - but didn't....

Leon.

[G6Tanuki]

You need to define what you mean by "best performing".

Most-sensitive? Able to resolve a (noisy) signal when you're 100 miles from the transmitter and there's a big chunk of Welsh-borders mountain in the way?

Or "Giving great HiFi reception using just the foil-dipole-stuck-to-the-back-of-the-set because you're living in a house on top of a hill with line-of-sight to Wrotham or Sutton-Coldfield a couple of miles away"?

One of my uncles was in the first category: I remember him going through a series of ever-taller lattice-masts and ever-bigger antennas at the top of the garden in his quest for non-hissy reception of 'the third-program'. He was rich-enough to import 'fringe-zone' VHF tuners from the USA - ending up with a couple of Zeniths and a Stromberg-Carlson - all of which - as a youngster - fascinated me because they had separate meters for signal-strength and 'centre-the-needle' tuning.

He had to wait for a local-relay to be set up in the 1970s before he ever heard broadcast-stereo.

[stevehertz]

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

You need to define what you mean by "best performing".

Well.. I'm open minded but in general I mean best audio, as 'heard'. It's all very well having a set that picks up distant stations, but entertainment value is the prime objective. So I suppose a combination of audio quality and the ability to pick up and deal with more distant stations is the answer.

[G6Tanuki]

Originally Posted by stevehertz

Well.. I'm open minded but in general I mean best audio, as 'heard'. It's all very well having a set that picks up distant stations, but entertainment value is the prime objective. So I suppose a combination of audio quality and the ability to pick up and deal with more distant stations is the answer.

When like in my uncle's case all there is available is a transmitter 100 miles away behind a hill, you kinda have to make compromises.

Back in the 50s and well into the 60s much of the UK struggled to get any kind of 'entertainment quality' FM signal, even with multi-element outdoor antennas and 'signal-boosters' between the antenna and the radio.

As an example - look at the current coverage-map for the Sutton Coldfield VHF BBC-national service (the equivalent of the old Home/Light/Third programs)

http://tx.mb21.co.uk/mapsys/map.php?mapid=42

Then imagine you're 40 miles further West. And using a receiver with 1950s/early-1960s noisy valves.....

"Entertainment-quality" reception? Only on a wing and a prayer.

[cathoderay57]

Most 1950s FM sets sporting an EL84 or two sound quite impressive. For me, the German radios have the edge in terms of sensitivity, and excellent audio from multiple speakers. I am not line of sight to the Mendip transmitter but down in a dip in the Severn estuary but I can still get good reception downstairs on my Graetz Sinfonia on its internal foil aerial. Ditto for a Grundig 2066PX that I restored for somebody. Decent ECC85 in the front end helps. Cheers, Jerry

[music-centre]

I always wanted to find a SABA Freiburg 125 which I imagine should be close to all round "best" but the price they go for I don't think its likely I will get one
Steve.

[trabant]

If you're feeling fancy and relatively rich the Danish take some beating B & O or linnet and Laursen. My linnet is probably my favourite set for FM the old 3D Grundigs take some beating as well.

[martin.m]

My pride and joy. A Ferguson 385RG circa 1957. Sounds great on Radio 4. Starts the dogs off barking as they think someone else is in the house!

[Paul_RK]

It's a pity Linnet & Laursen seem not to be much remembered at least in the UK, probably because few of their products were marketed here. This L&L Kardinal radiogram turned up in Newcastle: Bang and Olufsen deck with plug-in Ortofon heads.

I've owned a few large '50s German sets in the past - Saba, Telefunken and Nordmende - but with none having received a thorough overhaul it's unlikely I heard them near their best. A personal favourite and a delight to listen to is the Tandberg Sølvsuper 7 Deluxe, which interestingly employs a familiar Goodmans unit as bass driver.

Paul

[rontech]

Originally Posted by trabant

If you're feeling fancy and relatively rich the Danish take some beating B & O or linnet and Laursen. My linnet is probably my favourite set for FM the old 3D Grundigs take some beating as well.

Yes! I heard a neighbour's Grundig Balmoral which I think was 3D. This was back in 1956; the set was brand new and sounded very good.

[Peter.N.]

I remember the first VHF64 we had in the shop new, not only was the quality superb but the audio output far exceeded the German equivalents which distorted at not much above normal volume setting. That electrostatic tweeter brought high frequency response to a new level.

Peter

[Walterh]

Leon mentioned the Murphy A272C as good sounding. I agree - this radio outperforms many other radios with more loudspeakers and is a favorite of mine by the design, sound and quality of workmanship.

As i never heard a VHF64, i can't judge this one. The two large loudspeakers are impressive. And at that time, british loudspeakers were top.

I have

- Mediator Bi-Ampli MD3529A (rebranded Philips Philips Capella BD753A/4E/3D)
- Siemens M7
- Saba Freiburg 125
- Stern Radio Rochlitz Stradivari 2
- Philips Uranus 54 BD733A
- Loewe Opta Hellas 2841W

All these table top radios are very good sounding - even at (very) high volume - without distortion. They all have their own "sound" - only the Siemens has imho a neutral, natural sound. The Hellas even tend to be a "sound effect" machine.

But to compare with the mentioned VHF64 one would have to take something like a

- Telefunken Concertino 7
- Grundig 2035/56

These are good performers in every aspect - the Grundig also offers an astonishing good sound seeing the price. But - they are also revealing, that cost/performance ratio had to taken in consideration.

Walter

[ekjdm14]

I know Grundig etc tend to be thought of as having great sound, and when (if?) I get my own 2035 working I will compare it to some of my others, but currently the nicest sounding valve radio I own is also the most recently acquired/repaired (today, in fact!) and that is a Philips B4X11A which is currently soak-testing at my side with Radio Two playing the Jazz Show. I'm very pleasantly surprised by the fidelity, especially as it makes do with a single Elac 4x6 speaker. I'm guessing it must have been a fairly high-end set in it's day though, looking at the features it includes. I wonder how it's new price compared to the sets Walter mentions above?

[simpsons]

I have both Philips Saturn BD563 and Grundig 3028, the latter with the correct FM de emphasis and both of are very good performers. However, the Saturn is remarkable. The volume of air moved by the bass speaker is such that the speaker cloth moves.

The BD563 tweeters have a moulded tizzer to radiate the highs forward and the push pull EL86's with a direct drive to high impedance loudspeakers makes for a very pleasant listening experience. The downside is the tone control.

The Grundig tone control can easily be set to level - I use Tannoy Eatons as reference - which matches the mid position of the controls but this is not easily repeated on the Philips. On this set, it can be correctly adjusted but there are no calibration or datum marks to return to. It is necessary to judge against pictures of musical instruments. OK for the sales pitch but not very practical. I should say that the room size and soft furnishing affect the perceived quality on all radios.

Both sets are sensitive on both FM and AM, with rotating ferrite rod, but the Philips scores on LW.

The Philips cost 485DM in 1956 whilst the Grundig was XXXDM Does anyone know?

The BBC R&D wrote a report on the Bush VHF 64 which highlights its strength and audio weakness. Unfortunately it didn't write reports for European designed radios of which Normende, Telefunken, Saba, Grundig, Philips and Blaupunkt are good examples, only mentioning them in visits to the Berlin Radio TV & Electronics exhibitions. Can't think why they didn't report on them.

[trabant]

Sound of course is a very personal and subjective experience I never fail to be amazed by the lengths fifty something year old blokes will go to in order to try and achieve hi-fi perfection. While spending £300 on the odd PX4 may be lovely im sure by the time you've reached the kind of age where you can afford to do that your hearing will be so degraded it will make absolutely no difference at all.

Anyway back to the radios I'm not a fan of Bush recievers the VHF 64 to my mind being a good enough sounding set though. I'm a big fan of pre war Philips sets however I find a lot of their post war production especially the Bi-ampli and Reverbo sets a bit gimmicky Saba I fear are well made bit prohibitively expensive to buy one because it sounded a wee bit better for my money if you're going German a Blaupunkt radiogram gives plenty of bang ( hopefully not literally) for your buck.

[Walterh]

Originally Posted by simpsons

The Philips cost 485DM in 1956 whilst the Grundig was XXXDM Does anyone know?

According RM.org https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/grundi...raet_3028.html the Grundig cost DM 349

And to answer the question concerning prices - specially for Philips radios - one can easily compare using the first digit in the model number that's in the range from one to nine - one for the cheapest model of the year and a nine for the most expensive radio - mainly consoles. So a table top radio with a 7 can be considered as top, a radio with a 3 or 4 as "mass market" models.

And i can second trabant - tube radios are not and were not supposed to be Hi-Fi, but the manufacturers tried to build good sounding devices and even designed the circuitry to match with the cabinet to sound as good as possible.

Walter

[MurphyNut]

Murphy made some fine VHF radios during this time, though they don't have elaborate multi speaker set ups they still sound very nice.
I own a A272, a table "baffle board" set. Being shallow in depth the bass is nicely controlled without any boom or boxy resonances found in some sets. I could listen to it all day without it becoming fatiguing.

[Mach One]

I'm convinced that if the British sets of the time had been rather more sensitive than they were (at least in my experience having tasted them through the heady period of the Seventies jumble sales) then FM (sorry - VHF...) might have taken off rather sooner.

The only VHF sets that we had in the house were unremarkable but I only discovered just how bad they were when I had access to sets like the Grundig Concert Boy or Satellit 2100. These showed me how it should be. I'm personally convinced that some of the DAB sets on sale when that first started had similar issues and put DAB in a bad light.

As far as valve sets are concerned, I have a friend who astounded me with his Blaupunkt late fifties valve set (with FM) when I first saw it with the sensitivity and selectivity that it had. Incredible. I thought at the time that only transistor radios could do that!

[simpsons]

Thank you Walter for finding the mid 50’s German price for the Grundig 3028 as this allows me to compare the cost of the Grundig, Philips and Bush VHF64.

It just so happens that during that time the UK had fixed priced known as "resale price maintenance" and in 1958 the Grundig 3028, known in the UK as the Marlborough, is priced at £62. (Shown in the Sales literature “Music for me – by Eric Robertson).This is equivalent to 5 times the average weekly wage at that time.

The Bush though cost £49 which would be quite a significant saving, for the “middle class” buyer it was aimed at.

Grundig though by then had a prestigious name and, well known for its domestic tape recorders and having a wide model base, was seen as a premium product. It helped that, unlike Bush, it sold in the competitive world market keeping product innovation and design abreast of the times.

The Philips, also a "world radio" would have cost around £86 then or, using the site “Value of Pounds Today,” £1669 today.