Holme Moss service area.

[colly0410]

I'm wondering if horizontal polarisation would have been better for HM co-channel interference problems? My thinking is that you could put the dipole part of the aerial end end on towards the interfering TX. I suppose when HM fired up in 1951 though there were no Co-channel interfering TX's. I bet HM & other British band 1 TX's caused as much co-channel interference overseas as their TX's caused to us..

[kan_turk]

I remember seeing grainy pictures from HM in TV shop windows in Limerick in mid-west Ireland during the mid 1950s

[SteveCG]

I can certainly vouch for E2 SpE interfence on the Lancashire coast. I reckoned that the fact the aerials ( Xs and Hs ) looked Eastward to HM compared to receivers in Yorkshire whose aerials looked Westward may have been some explanation for the West/East split in where the problem was the worst. Of course a big culprit's signal, Spain on E2, came up from the south and so would have affected both equally!

I lived for while in the southern Lake District and indeed B2 reception was a 'tour-de-force' there.

[Nuvistor]

The signal were I lived was strong so SpE didn't cause too many problems, has I noted before.
My dad did convert an old TV to receive SpE on the other VHF B1 channels and was very successful using a dipole in the upstairs room that was his shack.
Frank

[SteveCG]

Following on from my post no. 23

To augment HM, there was the Morecambe Bay relay on B3 Horiz. This helped, as evidenced by the 'H' aerials on the skyline in places like Cartmel. South of Bowness it was also possible to get Morecambe Bay on a dipole, "if" you were on the East side of Lake Windermere. If you were in Kendal (the Ignition interference capital of the area, with the A6 grinding it way through the traffic snarl-ups) then a B1 (I think!) relay was provided. Elsewhere - perhaps a little surprisingly - if you could receive Winter Hill ITA on B9, then quite a few folk found a semi-wideband would bring in Winter Hill BBC on B12 - without any of the SpE interference risk on B3 as well as B2.

VHF/FM reception in the South Lakes area also had it turns and twists and Birdies - but that is for another thread.

[colourking]

Originally Posted by kan_turk

I remember seeing grainy pictures from HM in TV shop windows in Limerick in mid-west Ireland during the mid 1950s

interesting to read this, I didn't think that Limerick city would have had any TV sets installed prior to RTE ! - that it would be pointless trying for BBC Band I 405 line transmissions with any sort of even occasional useable reception. A long haul indeed looking at a map.
Any more info on the aerial setups etc and with what sort of consistency was reception? And how many people there actually had sets installed (prior to RTE)
Maybe Holme Moss was running an extra bit of power in its earlier years as well, or was this reception possible for many years until the 405 line transmitters were reduced in power prior to closure ?

[Nicklyons2]

Originally Posted by SteveCG

I can certainly vouch for E2 SpE interfence on the Lancashire coast. I reckoned that the fact the aerials ( Xs and Hs ) looked Eastward to HM compared to receivers in Yorkshire whose aerials looked Westward may have been some explanation for the West/East split in where the problem was the worst. Of course a big culprit's signal, Spain on E2, came up from the south and so would have affected both equally!

I don't know about Spanish interference to Holme Moss but I can vouch for lots of French interference (I believe Caen was the major culprit). In addition to Morecambe Bay the BBC had 'thoughtfully' provided relays for HM ch2 at Belmont and Skegness. They hadn't thought quite enough about the conditions however; the main reason many viewers had for finding an alternative was the pestiferous "Continental Interference" rather than overall poor signal. Relaying chB2 from HM rather than providing microwave links to Belmont and Morecambe Bay just meant they relayed the interference.

Winter Hill chB12 of course was fed from Manchester and carried a different programme to Holme Moss which was re-allocated to the BBC Leeds area when Winter Hill ch12 went on-air (in 1967?).

I should say here that sans interference the pictures from HM on B2 were always excellent right up to the end but hot summers could be a real drag - watching Wimbledon through moving Venetian blinds accompanied by what sounded like a distant whistling kettle.

[FERNSEH]

Wasn't the North-East of England Pontop Pike transmitter initially just a relay of Holme Moss?

DFWB.

[Nuvistor]

I thought there was a microwave link from around HM to PP. There is a dish and microwave equipment in the MOSI in Manchester with information that it was used for that purpose.
Frank

[Nicklyons2]

Somewhere I've a map of the route; Frank is essentially correct. If memory serves; the Post Office's coax ran to Manchester with a 'local end' to Holme Moss. There was a mega-rush to get Pontop Pike on air for the Coronation; the quickest solution, and one I believe which stayed in use for sometime, was to microwave HM's feed. There must have been at least a couple of IPs involved given the distance. But I think the idea was to intercept the Manchester to Kirk O'shotts microwave circuit at a Post Office links station near PP and feed PP with a short coax 'local end'.

[Nuvistor]

Is this the map? WW June 1953 page 274
Frank

[Nicklyons2]

Frank, Thanks for posting that; it's not the exact one but conveys the same info. The one I have/had was an 'official' BBC one.

[kan_turk]

In reference to pre RTÉ tv reception in Limerick city there were a number of radio/hardware/bicycle shops which displayed tv sets in their windows - for the novelty value I guess and installed by enthusiasts - gigantic aerial masts etc - discernable pictures were evident quite regularly - the fact that there was a significant tv receiver ownership in Ireland prior to RTÉ influenced the decision to operate a limited 405 line service in parallel with the main 625 line one

[Welsh Anorak]

Hi
I remember (just) my Dad receiving Holme Moss on channels 2 and 10 just south of Caernarfon in the Sixties with a Bush TUG62. Reception was fine, and stadard H and X areials were used.
Later on he bought a Bush TV186D as the new 625 system came into play.
Interestingly I was on holiday in Dublin around 1970 and I was able to watch, albeit with added snow, Caernarfon coming last in Jeux Sans Frontieres!
Glyn

[Nuvistor]

Would that have been Winter Hill ITA On channel 9, not HM on channel 10, Emley Moor ITA transmitted on ch10? May have been on 10 on the dial but those old Bush tuners had a broad frequency change. I know WH covered North Wales until Moel-y-Parc started around 1963 ch 11.
Frank
Edit I suppose it could have been Moel-y-Parc you received.

[Welsh Anorak]

You could be right there - I was very young at the time!

[Tazman1966]

Originally Posted by Nicklyons2

I should say here that sans interference the pictures from HM on B2 were always excellent right up to the end but hot summers could be a real drag - watching Wimbledon through moving Venetian blinds accompanied by what sounded like a distant whistling kettle.

Wow! Yes - the distant whistling kettle noise. I'd completely forgotten about that. I was very young though when we lived in Shotton in North East Wales. Thanks for triggering my memory!

[SteveCG]

For me it was that characteristic video (E2) rasp during the SpE season on B2 sound from HM.

[Hybrid tellies]

We use to get the same co channel effects in west Cornwall during Sporadic E openings. Our local BBC1 405 line transmitter was North Hessary Tor, 60 miles away, which also used channel 2.

[Focus Diode]

I never succeeded in receiving Holme Moss on ch2, then I did return to North East England in early 1984 when the transmitter may have been operating on reduced power and being restricted to an upstairs flat with an indoor aerial. I did receive ch10 Emley Moor once during a tropospheric spell however!