Garrard SP25 MkIII

['LIVEWIRE?']

Did the above come with an 'umbrella' spindle? There is no way it can automatically START to play a record without one, yet the speed selector is marked '78/10" -45/7" - 33/12" - 33/7".

[Tom_I]

No, it's a single play turntable.

You place the record on the platter, and set the size and speed using the control on the right. Then flick the front control to 'auto' and release. The turntable starts, and the arm lifts, moves out and sets down to the specified position, then at the end of the disc it automatically lifts and parks, and the turntable stops.

[Dave Moll]

And presumably you would have to start a 12" 78 manually, as that combination is not included in the settings.

[Tom_I]

Yes, it's odd that. The vast majority of classical 78s were 12 inchers, and yet it has a setting for 7-inch 33s, which I wouldn't have thought were all that common.

Tom

[Michael Maurice]

Originally Posted by Tom_I

Yes, it's odd that. The vast majority of classical 78s were 12 inchers, and yet it has a setting for 7-inch 33s, which I wouldn't have thought were all that common.

Tom

7" playing at 33 was more common than you think, two big hits of the 70's spring to mind, Mungo Jerry's in the Summertime was No 1 for 8 weeks over June/July/August 1970 and Clodagh Rogers Jack in the box in 1971.

I would think these decks which were popular in the early 1970's (I bought one in 1972) were designed to be used in systems bought by the young people of the day.

Classical 78's wouldn't have been popular then, classical listeners would have almost certainly replaced their 78's with LP's.

['LIVEWIRE?']

Tom I - Could there be a problem in the mechanism? Having cleaned of dried grease and ensured that, amongst other things, the cam gear and its associated levers are operating correctly, if I place arecord on the T/T, set the speed & size to suit, then flick the control to 'Auto', all that happens is that the PU Arm lifts from the rest, moves slightly, then the unit switches off, returning he arm to it's rest. If I play a record of any speed or size manually, the auto stop works correctly, returning the arm to it's rest & switching off at the end of the record.

[ben]

Originally Posted by Michael Maurice

7" playing at 33 was more common than you think, two big hits of the 70's spring to mind, Mungo Jerry's in the Summertime was No 1 for 8 weeks over June/July/August 1970 and Clodagh Rogers Jack in the box in 1971..

In several decades of record collecting, I've only ever seen the mungo jerry single at 33, plus a few cheap EPs on the avenue label, maybe one or two others so I wouldn't say 7" at 33 is common by any means.

In Argentina however, all the singles are at 33...maybe Garrard were looking at that market at the design stage? In south america they were widely sold as Gradiente.

getting back to the sp25 mkIII at hand, My 40b is basically identical but has the overarm of the 2025. I'm sure if you put a step spindle in the sp25mkIII it would react since the mechanics are the same.
In this case, it sounds like something is not being activated off the main cam. Time to look under the deck - missing spring?
-ben

[Tom_I]

Yes, something's not right. When you try to start the deck in auto mode, it's performing a 'stop' rather than a 'play' cycle.

I'm not sure with these how the deck 'knows' which to do. With autochangers of similar design, it's the vertical position of the control arm (the one that sits on the records stacked on the spindle) which performs this function. If it's sitting in its lowest position (i.e. no records on the spindle) a 'stop' cycle is performed, while if it is raised above this then a 'play' cycle is carried out. It's obviously different in this case, as there is no overarm.

I'm sure somebody on the forum will be able to help.

Tom

[geofy]

Without knowing to much about these decks, apart from it being capable of very good results with a magnetic cartridge (and fitted with either a stylus suitable for microgrove 33 1/3/45 or a larger stylus for 78s) I would guess that the auto start has to push a lever into the central cam to initiate the start up. This action seems to be missing, possibly because of a stuck lever, the underside of the deck should be looked at while pressing the auto start lever.
I had a similar problem with a TC2025 deck in a Bush SRP51 that would not lift at the end of record, it was due to a seized bush within a bush, it had to be prised apart and then re-greased, it has worked well ever since.

Geof

[Michael Maurice]

Originally Posted by Tom_I

Yes, something's not right. When you try to start the deck in auto mode, it's performing a 'stop' rather than a 'play' cycle.

I'm not sure with these how the deck 'knows' which to do. With autochangers of similar design, it's the vertical position of the control arm (the one that sits on the records stacked on the spindle) which performs this function. If it's sitting in its lowest position (i.e. no records on the spindle) a 'stop' cycle is performed, while if it is raised above this then a 'play' cycle is carried out. It's obviously different in this case, as there is no overarm.

I'm sure somebody on the forum will be able to help.

Tom

IIRC the deck 'knows what to do because the cam is started by the off/on/auto lever, rather than the trip pawl, I may be wrong, its 35 years since i last saw one.

[Tom_I]

I thought that too, but you can reject the disc by flicking the lever to 'auto' while it's playing, and it then performs a 'stop' cycle, so it can't be as simple as that.

[julie_m]

Originally Posted by Tom_I

I thought that too, but you can reject the disc by flicking the lever to 'auto' while it's playing, and it then performs a 'stop' cycle, so it can't be as simple as that.

Is the deck perhaps responding to the position of the tonearm WRT the rest position, rather than the height of the steadying arm, to decide whether to start or stop?

BTW, watch out for SP25s that have been fitted in disco consoles! This was a very popular deck for this application (BSRs weren't up to the job), but they were usually converted to full manual operation by removing part of the trip mechanism.

[Stewart]

Unlike their autochanger brothers, I don't think these decks do "reject" when set to AUTO..I pretty sure that function only ever re-starts a record on the SP25. The fact that the arm returns at the end of the record and that it does its futile dance above its rest when trying to start proves the ttrip and cam mechanism is complete and operational.

I would focus on what is triggered / moved differently between the arm triggering the trip mechanism and cam (at the end of a record) and what is activated in addition to the cam /trip mechanism when the operation lever is moved to auto. The mechanical difference should lead to the cause of the problems.

[Tom_I]

I was going by the user manual, which says that the deck will reject and stop if 'auto' is selected when playing. Reality could prove otherwise, of course.....

['LIVEWIRE?']

The fault seems to have been caused by too much friction in a pivot underneath the chassis. Automatic play operation is now OK, though I haven't tried rejecting a record part way through playing

[Stewart]

Tom_I - that's interesting.. I'm not going to disagree with the manual! Certainly the SP25 on my Hacker doesnt seem to reject in the traditional sense - although starts and stops as expected otherwise!

Sounds like the problem Livewire had was down to sticky grease once more.. pleased its sorted.

[humorist2751]

Greetings to all.

Having had one of these decks virtually for ever (well, since circa 1973 anyway), I can tell you that the "Auto" position has a dual function.

To begin play, slide the control lever all the way to the right until it latches, and the deck will set the arm down at the programmed point (7, 10, or 12 inches as appropriate).

To reject a playing record (i. e. to stop it prematurely), the action is similar - but you must only momentarily have the lever at the "Auto" position; pull it back to "manual" by hand, thus releasing the latch and aborting the remainder of the autostart sequence. The result is that the arm will return to the rest and the deck will stop.

Hope this makes things clear - the manual has more.

[ben]

manual here btw.

[Tom_I]

Yes indeed. I don't think I've ever used a Mk III, but here's the bit from the manual.