Pye Black Box - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

kevinski · 5th Dec 2013, 8:18 am

Hello everyone, hopefully someone can answer a question for me. I have a Pye Black Box and the pilot lamp is not lit. Is this normal?

Kevin

Radio Wrangler · 5th Dec 2013, 12:55 pm

You haven't said whether the thing pays records OK or not.

If it does, you probably just need a new bulb. Though in this age of equipment ther are a few other things that ought to be replaced as preventative maintenance if you wish to head-off a probable expensive failure.

David

Paul Stenning · 5th Dec 2013, 1:59 pm

I have deleted several sarcastic and unhelpful posts from this thread. That attitude is not welcome here.

Now can we try to help Kevin with his Black Box please.

Kevin, perhaps if you can tell us what model of Black Box it is that would help as we can check the service info to see how and where the lamp is connected.

Steve_P · 5th Dec 2013, 2:38 pm

There are various versions of the Pye Black Box. The one you have is probably the wooden box version, these are very good when restored - if the transformers are OK then it's usually capacitors.

The light is in parallel with the valves and comes off the transformer in these cases, The bulb is a 6.3v 0.3 Amp. You'll find some on the net - or try Maplin.

The capacitors that need to be changed are the smaller types that go to the valves - these block the DC from the anode of the valve before but pass the audio. Tell me the one you have (valves will do) and I will point out the manual you need and the caps you need to change.

Decks need to be maintained too, The grease dries up and becomes glue. You may need a new cartridge as well. Bit pricey but this will do the job and look the part...

http://www.musonic.co.uk/dc284ov-mon...y-p-18696.html

Cheers,

kevinski · 5th Dec 2013, 3:36 pm

I believe my black box is the has 2 x PCL83 valves and 1 ECC82 valve. Here are some pics to perhaps help. I was given this player from someone who told me that it "tripped the fuse box" when he switched it on, so I've been a bit dubious about trying it out. I don't know yet if it plays records.

Thanks for your help

Kevin

Nickthedentist · 5th Dec 2013, 3:51 pm

I can see at least 7 caps that need changing, as David and Steve have said.

Nick

Radio Wrangler · 5th Dec 2013, 3:54 pm

The odd valve in the group looks more like an ECC82.

The Black Box is one of the finest period record players, and is well worth restoring.

In the photo I can see 5 brown Hunts capacitors and one Plessey electrolytic capacitor (thing with red and black plastic ends) These are all parts which would be automatically replaced by any knowledgeable refurbisher, so your unit looks completely untouched.

Because two of the brown capacitors are in places which, should they fail, will damage the output valves (generally available and affordable) and quite possibly burn out one of the transformers (very difficult to get a replacement and consequently expensive), I recommend you don't power the unit up without replacing these capacitors first. New ones are cheap and the old ones are very unreliable now they've reached this age.

David

Radio Wrangler · 5th Dec 2013, 3:58 pm

Nick's got better eyesight! now I see it, buried in a lower layer.

David

Steve_P · 5th Dec 2013, 4:11 pm

All thoise nasty Hunts capacitors need to be swapped on sight, as do the smaller electrolytics. The ones in the cans, the smoothers, may be OK. The values now are 'Preferred'. so things like 0.02uF and 0.04uF may well not be available now. There are 0.022 and 0.047 - these will be fine.The originals were not exactly good to start with!!!

The valves may or may not be OK, as the PCL83 was not exactly the most reliable valve on the planet. There's some here - I have no connection with the seller and this is for imformation purposes.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCL83-ELEC...-/251254177727

The odd valve here is an ECC82. Should be OK.

Change those capacitors and then plug it in and see what happens.

Cheers,

Steve P.

kevinski · 5th Dec 2013, 4:13 pm

So, change the 5 brown capacitors and the Plessey capacitor. What about the two black Hunts caps beside the Plessey? or were they included in Nicks 7?

Kevin

Steve_P · 5th Dec 2013, 4:19 pm

Change them too. For the cost it would be folly to leave them.

Cheers,

Steve P.

Nickthedentist · 5th Dec 2013, 6:45 pm

Don't take my "7" as Gospel, it was only a quick count as I glanced at the pic!

Radio_Dave · 5th Dec 2013, 7:27 pm

Knowing that the lamp doesn't work and it has tripped a fuse, I'd be inclined to check the mains transformer before doing anything

David

kevinski · 5th Dec 2013, 7:31 pm

According to the manual there are 15 capacitors in total. I've decided to change 'em all except the three in the can since I have them handy anyway and then see where I am after that.

Michael Maurice · 6th Dec 2013, 1:08 am

You should also change the bridge rectifier. They tend to go low output. What I do is to remove the old one from the chassis, then open the aluminium casing and remove the rectifier itself. Fit a modern one in its place and secure with epoxy. Refit assy to the chassis, reconnect all wires but fit a 150R 7W resistor between it and the mains transformer

kevinski · 6th Dec 2013, 10:55 am

Radio Dave - I'm getting 230v at the primary tags on the transformer but I'm having trouble identifying the secondary tags, any help please.

Michael - would a diode, resister combination work ok or would you recommend a replacement rectifier?

Station X · 6th Dec 2013, 11:14 am

Being a bridge rectifier you'll need to replace it with a new bridge rectifier or four diodes.

Radio_Dave · 6th Dec 2013, 11:41 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinski

Radio Dave - I'm getting 230v at the primary tags on the transformer but I'm having trouble identifying the secondary tags, any help please.

It's a bit difficult to make out and I don't have the circuit but I think the two tags I've circled yellow are for the whole secondary, high voltage, winding and the two red circles are the tags for the heater/bulb winding.

kevinski · 6th Dec 2013, 12:07 pm

I presume the bridge rectifier is the square bottom left in pic 3?

Kevin

Station X · 6th Dec 2013, 12:13 pm

Yes.

5th Dec 2013, 8:18 am	#1
kevinski Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK. Posts: 330	Pye Black Box Hello everyone, hopefully someone can answer a question for me. I have a Pye Black Box and the pilot lamp is not lit. Is this normal? Kevin

5th Dec 2013, 12:55 pm	#2
Radio Wrangler Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Fife, Scotland, UK. Posts: 22,858	Re: Pye Black Box You haven't said whether the thing pays records OK or not. If it does, you probably just need a new bulb. Though in this age of equipment ther are a few other things that ought to be replaced as preventative maintenance if you wish to head-off a probable expensive failure. David __________________ Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done Last edited by Paul Stenning; 5th Dec 2013 at 1:58 pm. Reason: Tidying after deleting other posts

5th Dec 2013, 1:59 pm	#3
Paul Stenning Administrator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Cardiff Posts: 9,071	Re: Pye Black Box I have deleted several sarcastic and unhelpful posts from this thread. That attitude is not welcome here. Now can we try to help Kevin with his Black Box please. Kevin, perhaps if you can tell us what model of Black Box it is that would help as we can check the service info to see how and where the lamp is connected. __________________ Paul Stenning Forum Admin/Owner and BVWS Webmaster

5th Dec 2013, 2:38 pm	#4
Steve_P Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 6,644	Re: Pye Black Box There are various versions of the Pye Black Box. The one you have is probably the wooden box version, these are very good when restored - if the transformers are OK then it's usually capacitors. The light is in parallel with the valves and comes off the transformer in these cases, The bulb is a 6.3v 0.3 Amp. You'll find some on the net - or try Maplin. The capacitors that need to be changed are the smaller types that go to the valves - these block the DC from the anode of the valve before but pass the audio. Tell me the one you have (valves will do) and I will point out the manual you need and the caps you need to change. Decks need to be maintained too, The grease dries up and becomes glue. You may need a new cartridge as well. Bit pricey but this will do the job and look the part... http://www.musonic.co.uk/dc284ov-mon...y-p-18696.html Cheers, __________________ If we've always had it, why is the Car Boot open? You're not sneaking another Old TV in are you...?

5th Dec 2013, 3:36 pm	#5
kevinski Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK. Posts: 330	Re: Pye Black Box I believe my black box is the has 2 x PCL83 valves and 1 ECC82 valve. Here are some pics to perhaps help. I was given this player from someone who told me that it "tripped the fuse box" when he switched it on, so I've been a bit dubious about trying it out. I don't know yet if it plays records. Thanks for your help Kevin Attached Thumbnails Last edited by AC/HL; 5th Dec 2013 at 3:42 pm. Reason: Typo

5th Dec 2013, 3:51 pm	#6
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,841	Re: Pye Black Box I can see at least 7 caps that need changing, as David and Steve have said. Nick

5th Dec 2013, 3:54 pm	#7
Radio Wrangler Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Fife, Scotland, UK. Posts: 22,858	Re: Pye Black Box The odd valve in the group looks more like an ECC82. The Black Box is one of the finest period record players, and is well worth restoring. In the photo I can see 5 brown Hunts capacitors and one Plessey electrolytic capacitor (thing with red and black plastic ends) These are all parts which would be automatically replaced by any knowledgeable refurbisher, so your unit looks completely untouched. Because two of the brown capacitors are in places which, should they fail, will damage the output valves (generally available and affordable) and quite possibly burn out one of the transformers (very difficult to get a replacement and consequently expensive), I recommend you don't power the unit up without replacing these capacitors first. New ones are cheap and the old ones are very unreliable now they've reached this age. David __________________ Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done

5th Dec 2013, 3:58 pm	#8
Radio Wrangler Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Fife, Scotland, UK. Posts: 22,858	Re: Pye Black Box Nick's got better eyesight! now I see it, buried in a lower layer. David __________________ Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done

5th Dec 2013, 4:11 pm	#9
Steve_P Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 6,644	Re: Pye Black Box All thoise nasty Hunts capacitors need to be swapped on sight, as do the smaller electrolytics. The ones in the cans, the smoothers, may be OK. The values now are 'Preferred'. so things like 0.02uF and 0.04uF may well not be available now. There are 0.022 and 0.047 - these will be fine.The originals were not exactly good to start with!!! The valves may or may not be OK, as the PCL83 was not exactly the most reliable valve on the planet. There's some here - I have no connection with the seller and this is for imformation purposes. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCL83-ELEC...-/251254177727 The odd valve here is an ECC82. Should be OK. Change those capacitors and then plug it in and see what happens. Cheers, Steve P. __________________ If we've always had it, why is the Car Boot open? You're not sneaking another Old TV in are you...? Last edited by Steve_P; 5th Dec 2013 at 4:16 pm.

5th Dec 2013, 4:13 pm	#10
kevinski Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK. Posts: 330	Re: Pye Black Box So, change the 5 brown capacitors and the Plessey capacitor. What about the two black Hunts caps beside the Plessey? or were they included in Nicks 7? Kevin

5th Dec 2013, 4:19 pm	#11
Steve_P Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 6,644	Re: Pye Black Box Change them too. For the cost it would be folly to leave them. Cheers, Steve P. __________________ If we've always had it, why is the Car Boot open? You're not sneaking another Old TV in are you...?

5th Dec 2013, 6:45 pm	#12
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,841	Re: Pye Black Box Don't take my "7" as Gospel, it was only a quick count as I glanced at the pic!

5th Dec 2013, 7:27 pm	#13
Radio_Dave Nonode Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK. Posts: 2,543	Re: Pye Black Box Knowing that the lamp doesn't work and it has tripped a fuse, I'd be inclined to check the mains transformer before doing anything David __________________ http://www.youtube.com/ My Nixie Clocks

5th Dec 2013, 7:31 pm	#14
kevinski Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK. Posts: 330	Re: Pye Black Box According to the manual there are 15 capacitors in total. I've decided to change 'em all except the three in the can since I have them handy anyway and then see where I am after that.

6th Dec 2013, 1:08 am	#15
Michael Maurice Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wembley, Middlesex Posts: 7,222	Re: Pye Black Box You should also change the bridge rectifier. They tend to go low output. What I do is to remove the old one from the chassis, then open the aluminium casing and remove the rectifier itself. Fit a modern one in its place and secure with epoxy. Refit assy to the chassis, reconnect all wires but fit a 150R 7W resistor between it and the mains transformer __________________ Forum Moderator http://www.michaelmauricerepairs.co.uk/

6th Dec 2013, 10:55 am	#16
kevinski Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK. Posts: 330	Re: Pye Black Box Radio Dave - I'm getting 230v at the primary tags on the transformer but I'm having trouble identifying the secondary tags, any help please. Michael - would a diode, resister combination work ok or would you recommend a replacement rectifier?

6th Dec 2013, 11:14 am	#17
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,286	Re: Pye Black Box Being a bridge rectifier you'll need to replace it with a new bridge rectifier or four diodes. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

6th Dec 2013, 12:07 pm	#19
kevinski Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK. Posts: 330	Re: Pye Black Box I presume the bridge rectifier is the square bottom left in pic 3? Kevin

6th Dec 2013, 12:13 pm	#20
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,286	Re: Pye Black Box Yes. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.