Uher SG 560 Royal.

[twindeck]

Dear All, Newbe here, just bought a Uher SG 560 Royal, what do you guys think of this one, just replaced the belts lubricated all moving parts and drilled out and replaced a broken bolt on the left hand reel drive, is there anything else I should attend to before I button the cases back together, maybe upgrade the speakers,

Also what other makes would be worth considering for mainly playing mostly, I have seen some vintage ones on eBay for around £300 that look good but I'm unsure which make or model to go for, your help and advice would be greatfully appreciated.

[Ted Kendall]

For a machine which works and goes on working, a Revox is the one to go for. £300 can net you a tidy B77. The issues with these are few and well understood and the performance beyond reproach.

I wouldn't bother fiddling with the internal speakers on the 560 - better just to use the line output to feed an external amplifier and speakers. It would be a good idea to check for leaky electrolytics, otherwise just use it and tackle any issues which arise. It is quite a sound bit of kit.

[twindeck]

Thank you for the reply and advice, I will do as you suggest, and keep all updated.

[paulsherwin]

If you don't want to spend that amount, there are lots of Japanese domestic hifi decks from the 70s by people like Sony and Akai which can sound pretty good once sorted out.

If buying a Revox or other semipro machine, remember that these may have been well used and have high hours, so take care. Most domestic machines won't have been heavily used though they may well need new belts and a relube.

[twindeck]

Very good point, I was looking at, Teac A7, Revox F36, Akai GX635, Akai 4000DS,
I will be using for playback mainly, A reliable machine is the main thought.

Thank you for the advice.

[ITAM805]

I have an SG 562 Royal, it's a nice machine but a bit basic with it's mechanical controls. That said it's more straight forward as far as maintenance goes compared to more sophisticated machines, in a sort of VW beetle way !

As Ted and Paul have said, a B77 would be a good choice (with caveats) or a Japanese 70/80's machine, Teac/Tascam in particular can be good and reliable.

My Uher needed a replacement idler wheel, and also it had some leaky caps, causing hum on the line out.

[Michael Maurice]

I dont know the Uher but I think you'll find the build quality to be better than the Akai 4000DS.

The Revox F36 is now around 55 years old and can need some parts replacing the capstan flywheel coupling being one. They are not easy to work on.

The Teac and Akai GX635 are good decks.

Be aware than some decks are 2 track,some are 4 track, you need the correct type to replay your tapes correctly.

[twindeck]

Originally Posted by ITAM805

My Uher needed a replacement idler wheel, and also it had some leaky caps, causing hum on the line out.

This is my first machine, I will check the idler wheel, ( first play the rewind was very slow ) good and solid in a VW way as you say,

I will study the Japanese machines,

Thank you for the advice.

[twindeck]

Originally Posted by Michael Maurice

Be aware than some decks are 2 track,some are 4 track, you need the correct type to replay your tapes correctly.

I have a good lot of tapes that came with the Uher, which I believe is 2 track, so these will not play on 4 track ?.

I will check out the Teac and Akai decks.

Thank you for the advice.

[McMurdo]

some 4-track tape machines will happily play 2-track tapes. You have a selector which chooses which tracks to play back.

If I get the switch in the wrong position I can have the left channel playing one song and the right channel playing the other

[twindeck]

Thanks for that, I've a lot to learn. lol,

[Radio Wrangler]

As far as revoxes go, there's not a lot to choose between the A77 and the B77. They both have similar strengths and weaknesses. In choosing one, you need to look for good unworn heads and tape guides. Most other things can be fixed quite easily. You'll need to check for it having the format (1/4 track or 1/2 track) that you want and the speeds that you want. Most are 3.75 and 7.5 inches/sec. The high speed ones 7.5 and 15ips are relatively rare. Some high speed ones were converted from normal speed models by fitting the right parts, some were bodged.

The internal amps and speakers option isn't wonderful, you're better off with an external amp.

Some have Dolby noise reduction. Really, the machine doesn't really need it and Dolby B isn't really up to the quality of the rest of the machine.

There is only one belt on the machine and that drives only the tape position counter.

There are several lare capacitors which are renowned for failing in a very smelly way. Replacement is essential. There are the usual small aluminium electrolytics which have probably gone high-resistance, and there are some preset pots renowned for crumbling. All fixable just so long as the heads are OK.

The Akai 4000DS is a very good home machine... prettty much the top of the amateur market. The heads last fairly well. I wore my way through a couple of sets of spool bearing bushes (no Revox ball-bearin races here). The electronics are mostly trouble free, but there are two cast alloy cams behind the mechanism control levers. These are of an alloy which is now crumbling. Spares are unobtainable. To fix, you need to spend serious time communing with a vice and file. The Akai in good order sounds fine. I sold my 4000DS to a guy in R&D at Linn when I bought an A77. I still have the A77.

The Sony TC377 is in the same league as the 4000DS, but fewer were sold because of their higher price. Second hand, they have the benefit of very long-lived heads. Consider them a bit better than the Akai.

David

[Ted Kendall]

I concur with the above - B77 has motion sensing, which makes it much harder to damage tapes by clumsy operation, but also has plastic switch toggles which can be broken off. Tape to head contact is a little better on the B, but nothing to complain about on the A...and so on.

I had both the Akai and the Sony in days of yore, and a 377 in good shape shows the 4000DS the door on several points - proper speed changing instead of a capstan sleeve, three speeds instead of two, better heads, inclusion of a scrape roller, servo tape tension - in good shape, it's a fair choice if you can't or don't want to run to a Revox.

[ben]

In general, I say go for a deck with as many motors as possible! (usually 3).

The old idea of the fewer the moving parts, the less to go wrong. Single motor transports inevitably have an array of rubber belts, idler wheels, mechanical linkages and friction clutches, all of which rot, seize up, go out of alignment, wear out etc. through time and/or use. You generally avoid that with a 3 motor transport*. Apart from Revox, Look at the better Sonys, Tandbergs, etc. There was a nice 3 motor Truvox which can be found for cheap.

As mentioned above, check heads and guides carefully for wear as these are hard to find/replace.

*I have a 3 motor Philips N4420 which also couples the motors via belts, fortunately easy to work on.

[twindeck]

Thank you for all the information, a lot to think about, what I will done is make a short list then start looking at what is avalible, I will need a lot of help if I have to change electrical components, so I could be asking many questions on the site.

[Radio Wrangler]

That's OK. That's what we're here for.

Restoring something is half the fun. But do search the group, you'll find a lot of questions have already been covered, and everyone finds there are other ones they hadn't yet discovered the need to ask.

There are other Revoxes. The valved ones have quite a following, but the transistor ones but Studer/Revox held off from going with transistors until good silicon devices were available and the change to the A77 family was a genuine improvement.

There is also the A700 which was a formidably expensive big brother with three speeds and all the trimmings. Not very common because the A77 did what the pros wanted and the A700 offered nothing they needed, so they sold only to the richest hobbyists. Half of me would like one, the other half of me says I hate slide controls! so I'll stick with the A77. If you come across an A700 at a good price, then consider it seriously.

There is the PR99 which is the last of the A77 descendants. Looks good. LED tape position and a few other twinklies. But most of these went into specialist professional use there were many made with all sorts of options Half-track is common, many released onto the market were play only with no recording amplifiers. If you find a PR99, you need to check very carefully just what variant it is, and then check the condition (heads and guides) they mostly sold to people who used them hard.

Tandberg made some machines worthy of consideration, but they're thinner on the ground. Some of the later Ferrographs may be interesting. They were well built but didn't challenge the Revoxes.

Valved Ferrographs and valved Revoxes are a bit of a hobby in themselves.

There are Teacs and Otaris which went for the garage band sort of market. They weren't really built for longevity, so most found today have had a hard life.

Technics (The Matsushita/Panasonic posh brand) and Pioneer as well as Akai made some expensive models that looked like twinkly jewellery. Lots and lots of features, auto-reverse, weird tape paths you name it they had it. They were purely home toys. The serious users stuck to their Studers, Revoxes etc.

Willi Studer started making tape recorders in Switzerland, branded with his name. He branded his 'portable' range of machines 'Revox'. Just to confuse things, he did make a few Studer branded portables which were made out of revox hardware but with balanced inputs and different styling.

David

[Michael Maurice]

I bought an akai 4000DS in 1973, It was nothing but trouble. Within a month the bolt that holds the pinch roller arm assy had worked loose damaging the tapes.

Then IC's went noisy or failed completely.

I had enough, and got my dad to fork out for a Revox A77 with Dolby. Its still working today but it does need a service.

I'd go for a Revox any day over the rest.

[paulsherwin]

You are comparing apples and oranges though. The 4000DS is a pretty lightweight low end domestic machine designed for use with a stereo system in the living room, recording the odd Prom concert from FM radio. Revoxes are tough as old boots semipro machines which were very much more expensive when new and are likely to have had very different patterns of use over the last 40 years.

[dave walsh]

I think you must have been unfortunate and got a Friday afternoon machine Michael It's true that the 4000 series had notorious problems with crumbly cams many years later but if you couldn't afford an obviously superior machine like the Revox, then the Akai was a bit of a godsend for many of us. It Was built down to a price [so to speak] ie no separate motors etc but definetely a big step up from say a 4 Track Domestic TR-proper meters, two speeds and everything!

Mine's still in use and so are quite a few others. I have a 7.5 ips live stereo recording of one of those 70's bands that didn't really get anywhere but are more recognised now done in a pub, now long gone and it's excellent! The introduction of this affordable machine with a semi-pro appearance [at least] was a bit similar I think to the cheaper home PC's coming out when, previously, there had only been an IBM for £5k.
Dave W

[twindeck]

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

As far as revoxes go, there's not a lot to choose between the A77 and the B77.

Thank you for all the advice David, leaning away from the Japanese ones, I will look for a A77 or B77 I think,